Dr Jane Gilmour Welcome to this roundtable  discussion, a chance to take a closer look “Inside   the Teen Brain.” Now, if you’ve seen previous  episodes of the series, you’ll know that from   puberty to about the age of 25, the brain shifts  gear, and as the adults supporting young people,   we must shift gear too. Strong evidence shows that  the adolescent brain becomes drawn towards risk,   novelty, and peer integration, it’s highly  engaged by respect and consultation, it’s   evolving independence and shaping identity,  all in the context of intense emotions. In today’s event, we ask an expert panel to  clarify and apply these data-led principles   to young people in education and justice systems,  in clinical settings and the community. The panel   are experts who have each featured in  a previous episode of “Inside the Teen   Brain.” And, of course, this discussion  is much more than the sum of its parts,   because we can integrate different perspectives,  discuss, debate, and maybe even disagree.   It’s a rare treat to explore the world of  adolescence with Clinicians and Academics   who have such a wealth of ex – of specialist  knowledge, and as I introduce the panel,   I’ll remind you of the topic they  each discussed in their episode. So, first, please welcome award-winning Clinical  Psychologist, Author and Professor of Paediatric   and Adolescent Psychology, Deborah  Christie. Just want to – hi, Deborah.   Now, Deborah showed us “the use of creative  metaphor and peer support to understand identity. Next, we have Dr Dominique Thompson, a Specialist  GP, Author, Speaker and Adviser to NICE. She led   our discussion on “good risk and ways to  expand young people’s life experience.” On to Fulbright Scholar, UN Advisor on Drugs  and Crime, Psychologist, Professor Rosie Meek,   who described the “power of relationships  and changing the therapeutic space.” Then we turn to Author, Clinical  Psychologist and popular Broadcaster,   Dr Eileen Kennedy-Moore, who explored supporting  emotional literacy and social skills development. And, finally, please meet Pete Etchells,  Professor of Psychology and Science   Communication and prizewinning Author.  He talked us through the “complexity   of data on teens and tech, and  its translation into practise.” Now, before we hear from the panel, let’s  turn to you, our audience, today. This is   an impressive international, multidisciplinary  group, and we would like questions from you,   please, practical, clinical or academic.  Add them into the chat bar, and include your   professional background if you can, and then  later I’ll take your questions to our panel. Now while you do that, I’ve got a few questions  of my own. Right, so, panel, let’s kick off.   Let’s start with peers, that’s front and centre  to the teenage experience, and we know that   integration into a peer group is key to healthy  personal development and shapes identity. Rosie,   thinking about your experience with young people  in the criminal justice system with an offender   identity, and, Deborah, with your work with  clinically ill young people, some of whom   might over identify with an illness role, what  are the challenges in shifting that iden – that   change in identity to a new peer group and  healthier identity, losing all that’s familiar? Professor Rosie Meek Well, I mean… Dr Jane Gilmour Deborah. Professor Rosie Meek Oh, sorry. Dr Jane Gilmour Go for it. Deborah,  or Rosie, what do you think? Dr Dominique Thompson Go ahead. Professor Rosie Meek Sorry, I thought you wanted  Deborah first, sorry, and then I started. Thank   you so much for that question though, Jane.  As I think we talked about on my session, my   first degree was in social psychology, so identity  underpins a lot of my work, and I try my best in   my work with young people in justice settings to  promote more positive identities, in some of the   most depressing and dark places, such as, prisons.  And a lot of my work involves doing that through   sport and physical activity, and encouraging  young people to see themselves as something   other than an offender. Particularly those that  have been caught up in the system for some time,   that can be really transformative for them,  and for those around them, for their families,   for their friends, for their peer group. Bu I also  have to be concerned if people are going to over   identify with a sporting identity, that has its  own risks too, so it is about some balance here. Dr Jane Gilmour Yeah. Deborah,  what would you take from that? Professor Deborah Christie I think  for me, young people who get stuck   with chronic illness, redefining what they have  available to them in the future, the work is to   invite them to think about where they want to  be, and the ways in which they can get there.   And sometimes that means a bit of a leap  of faith, so it does mean inviting somebody   to perhaps imagine – with solution-focused  therapy, we talk about asking people, you know,   “What would the miracle be, if tomorrow all of the  worries have gone, everything that you were scared   of had disappeared and you were doing exactly what  you wanted to do, what would that look like?” And   that’s inviting people to step over the problem,  and that can be very powerful, because it gives   people a chance to think of, where do I want  to get to, rather than, how do I get there? Dr Jane Gilmour And, Rosie, would you bring the  miracle question into a criminal justice setting? Professor Rosie Meek Absolutely. I think it’s  critical in terms of instilling some sense of hope   and change and the fact that even in people’s  darkest times we can see positive change. And   it’s one of the reasons why I’m so passionate  about supporting sport and physical activity   in our prisons, because that’s where I’ve worked  with children, young people and adults who have   been able to bring about those changes and see  that they have potential and see that they can   meet challenges and overcome them and  transform some of their aspirations in   a meaningful way. It’s one of many tools, but,  for me, it’s often one of the most useful tools. Professor Deborah Christie I think it’s  worth saying, Jane, that sometimes people   have said to me, “Oh, I don’t like the word  “miracle,” it doesn’t fit for me with my,   you know, ideological views, it doesn’t fit.”  And given that this is a multinational audience,   I suppose it’s important to acknowledge that  for people who don’t see a miracle as something   within their ideology, it’s also possible  to ask people, “If you were to step into   the future, or if you were to be in a time  machine,” there are ways of presenting it. The most important thing is to hold out the  idea that you don’t have to be defined by your   circumstances at the moment, and that there  – and as Rosie used that word “hope,” that   there is the possibility for change, and there  is the possibility for difference. And that   you are your own narrator, you create your  own narrative, it’s not the narrative that   others put upon you. And I was thinking  with – you know, in connection to Rosie,   I was really interested because a lot of the young  people that she – you know, that you work with,   Rosie, are kids that have been told how  “bad” they are and how “bad” they will be. Professor Rosie Meek Yeah, and exactly, and  I – as far back as when I was doing my PhD,   I used a construct called “possible  selves” or “future selves”… Professor Deborah Christie Hmmm. Professor Rosie Meek …which I know others  will have used, and it was so inspiring for   me to be asking people how they would like  to see their future selves, and, you know,   writing letters to their future selves,  doing life story work. And that’s when the   professional steps in to help them make  the steps to achieve that future self,   rather than to feel like it’s so  far away it’s absolutely impossible. Professor Deborah Christie Hmmm. Professor Rosie Meek But it can be  a really useful form of engagement. Professor Deborah Christie Hmmm.  Now, I was going to say, the letters   are very interesting in terms of, kind of,  people realising that they have a choice,   and that how they are at the moment is a choice.  It’s not something that’s been foisted upon them,   and that they have made choices along the way,  which is, kind of, where they – that’s how they’ve   got to where they got to. And so, if you can  – we talk about in health coaching “awareness,   responsibility and choice and change,  and that, you know, arc forward, that,   you know, if people are aware of the possibility  of hope that they can be responsible for change,   and that that – what does that change  going – is – does that look like? And so,   that letter writing can be really powerful, you  know, “Here’s the let – here’s the future that you   don’t make a difference and change, and here’s  a future where you do change, which is the one   that you want? ‘Cause you are, you know, you’re  the – you know, you construct your own future.” Dr Jane Gilmour And when you’re  talking, Deborah and Rosie, you know,   you work in different systems, one in the health  system, the other in the criminal justice system,   this is about applying the principles and changing  the language so that it suits the population in   hand. And it really does highlight the importance  of that, because young people do connect to the   language and language matters, so I think it’s  beautifully described. We could talk about this   a lot more, but I am aware that time’s ticking,  and I want to move to my next question about   “connection.” We know that the need to connect  is particularly strong during adolescence, and   recent figures in the UK suggest that loneliness  is reported most often in teens. Now, Pete,   you’ve talked about “developing good literacy  skills,” and, Eileen, you describe “social skill   development,” but here’s my question. In this  digitally ubiquitous world, do you have to be   digitally literate to be socially connected, and  if not, why not? Eileen, why don’t you kick off? Dr Eileen Kennedy-Moore We can’t  put the toothpaste back in the tube.   We live in a very electronic world where we  adults are on our phones, and, oh my gosh,   I spend so much time reading my email, it’s  ridiculous. So, we have to – instead of saying,   “Oh, we have to go back to this imaginary  past time,” we really need to help children   to deal with the world that they are  living in. We have to be guiding them,   asking good questions to help them figure  out what works for them? What makes sense   for them? What do they want? So I think it’s  a mistake to vilify all the online stuff,   at the same time, I think there is something  unique and different from in-person connection. We feel that also as adults, there’s – I  don’t know if it’s body heat or pheromones,   but there’s a presence and an immediacy of being  with someone in-person, as lovely as it is online,   as fun as it is to play video games, it  can’t replace the in-person contact. But,   for most kids, according to the research, their  – in Common Sense Media, their online lives,   their online interactions, support and  supplement their in-person interactions. Dr Jane Gilmour So, Pete, where would you  take that? Would you agree with that position,   there’s nothing so good as face-to-face  communication, it augments, does it? Professor Pete Etchells Yeah, I think that’s  a really sensible way of thinking about this,   that – I mean, to go – strictly to go back to  your question, no, you don’t need to be digitally   literate to be socially connected. But you do need  to be digitally literate, that’s not an option   anymore, and the advantages of understanding  how to navigate these online worlds responsibly   and safely and openly, facilitates those social  connections. So, like Eileen alluded to, actually,   if you talk to teenagers, the vast majority of  social connections they have online already exist   in the offline world. You know, this is not  they’re going around and talking to complete   random people all the time, they’re using it as an  extension of the world that’s already around them. So, I think, yeah, we need to remember that,  and help support it, as well, that, you know,   if you can build strong digital literacy skills,  strong resiliency in the digital domain from an   early age, what you do is you empower teenagers,  young people and parents and caregivers, as well,   to have better conversations about what’s going  on, to manage and maintain those relationships   better, to avoid vulnerabilities,  things like scams and misinformation. Dr Jane Gilmour Yeah. So, it… Professor Pete Etchells So, it’s… Dr Jane Gilmour …so, it sort of… Professor Pete Etchells …it’s all good. Dr Jane Gilmour So, you have to get  into the world and get a bit dirty and… Professor Pete Etchells Yeah. Dr Jane Gilmour …hopefully not damaged in order… Dr Eileen Kennedy-Moore They’re  definitely going to make mistakes… Dr Jane Gilmour Hmmm hmm. Dr Eileen Kennedy-Moore …like, that’s  in the research also. They’re going to   say something that’s mean and then regret  it afterwards and everybody blast them and   kicks them out of the group chat. So, nobody  is born knowing how to handle a group chat,   so this is – they’re going to make mistakes,  and we, as parents, want to make sure that   we have the kind of relationship that they  can come to us when, not if, they mess up. Dr Jane Gilmour Yeah, and I think that’s  wonderful, that idea of mistake making,   which you both alluded to in very different  contexts, and hopefully these mistakes,   you know, build resilience in that world. Okay, great stuff. Let’s move onto the  idea of transition. Because this is an   important topic, it seems the only constant  in a teen’s life is change, and, Dominique,   you described the challenges of transitioning  between secondary and tertiary education. And,   Bella, who couldn’t join us today, but she’s  an extraordinary young person and CAMHS,   or Child Adolescent and Mental Health Service  user, who led an episode discussion herself. Now, Bella described the vulnerability of moving  from child to adolescent services and adult   services, so Dominique and Bella both highlighted  the stress involved with transition. Dominique,   what can we do practically or emotionally  speaking, to bridge this gap? And the rest   of the panel may well have some added  extras as we start to talk about this. Dr Dominique Thompson Sure, thank you. It’s such  an important topic ‘cause change can be really   stressful, not always, but it can be. So, if we  know that, and, for example, we know they’re going   to be moving from secondary to tertiary education,  it’s the same with healthcare, and we need to   prepare before the move and then support them when  they arrive in the new place. And I think that we   are seeing that being done more in education, so  sixth formers, for example, are receiving more,   you know, life lessons, life skills, how to cope  after school and how to cope with uni, kind of,   education. But what we probably haven’t done as  much is in healthcare do that same preparation   before you move, and then that receiving you  into a new service with the support you need. Now, some places have done amazing things  and moved to a nought to 25-year-old service,   so they’ve, kind of, done away with the whole  tra – you know, transition between child and   adolescent to adult, because they’ve recognised  that, actually, you may not be an adult,   in the biological sense of your brain, until your  mid-20s. So, they’ve done a very sensible thing   and they’ve made the whole service inclusive,  supportive and taken away the cliff edge. But   where that doesn’t happen, maybe we need to  think about transition support, an additional   extra session, an additional service, people  who specifically help you to make those changes. Dr Jane Gilmour And so, I mean, I’m thinking  here of Rosie, you’re thinking – you’re working   with young people who are literally moving  from one trun – one service to another in   very – in a very truncated way. What ways  do you help them move from – you know,   into a criminal justice system and out of it, you  know, cause that’s a very sudden move, isn’t it? Professor Rosie Meek It is, it’s a massively  traumatic move, and just as Dominique was talking   there, I was – just brought into focus to me  how much more we could and should be doing,   actually, not just when young people  arrive in prison or a custodial setting,   but to prepare them for release back  to the community. Because we have this   terminology around “sentence planning” and  “resettlement” and “preparing people,” but   the stark facts are a lot of our young  people are going back to homelessness   or very challenging living circumstances,  disrupted education, which they haven’t   really been able to pick up whilst in custody,  potentially some really negative peer groups. And it brings into sharp focus the  importance of having some, kind of,   stability in that transition. Whether that’s an  adult or trusted professional or a role model or,   again, going back to some of my work around  sporting groups, we see some really powerful   effects, where it’s probably not the right  way that we should be supporting young people,   but they might feel most safe by engaging  with their sporting communities that they’ve   established whilst they’ve been in prison while  they come out of prison. So, some, kind of,   consistency there is so critical, and, sadly,  if people are going back to very disruptive   home lives, that’s often not there, and it – and  the statistics speak for themselves then, in terms   of our reoffending rates being so staggeringly  high, particularly for children and young people. Dr Jane Gilmour And, Rosie, that really strikes  me, because that’s exactly what Bella described.   So, Bella had been an adolescent in  the child and adolescent services,   she just was looking for one stable  relationship to take her into the adult service. Professor Rosie Meek Hmmm. Dr Jane Gilmour Does anybody have anything  else to comment on in terms of that? Deborah. Professor Deborah Christie Well, I was going  to – also, I was going to link with the idea of   transition and tech actually, because there was  – I was involved in a recent survey that asked   parents of kids that were going off to university  how comfortable and safe they felt about their   kids going. And the – it was around 80% said that  they were still – they were utterly terrified,   that their – and didn’t feel that their kids were  really prepared. But what was interesting was for   those children that had diabetes, and they –  their parents felt reassured by the existence   of really good tech nowadays, so kids that had  pumps, or kids who had blood glucose monitors,   that were all linked to their phones, so even  though they were no longer in the house and   they were off at university, their parents could  still be reassured that they were safe and well. So, I think – and I think it’s also worth  saying, you know, we’ve been writing about   transition for 25 years now. We’re still  asking teenagers the same questions we asked   them 25 years ago. We actually do know what  teenagers, adolescents, want from transition,   it’s our mis – it’s our failure as professionals  that we haven’t put all of those things in place.   We haven’t consistently done that. But I think  the tech now does create a support mechanism for   those kids, a bit of a safety net, and maybe, you  know, Pete would have some more to say about that. Dr Eileen Kennedy-Moore Well, I’d like to  bring up the research by Eli Leibowitz at Yale,   who talks about that what kids need from us, what  anxious kids need from us, is two ingredients   empathy plus confidence. So, we want to  empathise with whatever they’re afraid of,   but they also really and truly need the adults in  their lives to say, “I know you can do this. I am   positive that you can do this,” and that gives  them the ability to plug their nose and jump. I also think that this idea of – well, some of  you have – do even more about this than I do,   about the idea of positive risk is how kids  gain a sense of competence. In my practice,   I often recommend that kids  do things that are scary,   but not actually dangerous, and it  depends on what the circumstances is. For one girl I saw, it was riding her bike  farther than she had been allowed to in the past,   and I talked with the parents and, like,  “She’s a good kid, she can do this.” And   so they were scared because they’d never  let her, but the parents had to manage their   anxiety and let her go. And she biked  somewhere, and she found a waterfall,   and she was so thrilled, and she brought her  dad there to show it to him, but how delicious. Dr Jane Gilmour Exactly. Now, this brings me  to such an important issue, ‘cause, Eileen,   you’re raising the idea of the previous  generation. Now, we’re blaming ourselves,   yes, yes, I blame the parents and everyone else  in the previous generation, because whether we’re   parents, Teachers, Academics or mental health  professionals, we are implicitly telegraphing,   or even explicitly modelling, uncertainty and  anxiety about the world, to the detriment of   our young people. So, you really are –  you know, I think, Deborah and Eileen,   you’ve raised this already, who would want to  add to this, the idea that we are telegraphing   that the world is a very dangerous place,  and that’s a problem for our young people? Professor Rosie Meek Yeah, I’ll just echo that.  I mean, we know that healthy risks are good risks   to take, and we need to afford our young people  space to take healthy risks and to fail sometimes.   You know, I work with people in the justice system  who have failed and are often not given a second   chance, and they’re written off as a result  of that. And I think as part of that bigger   discussion about risk taking, yes, we need  to manage risk, and we have justice systems   in place, but we also need to recognise that  children and young people will make mistakes,   as someone said already, and it’s how we respond  to that, and how we encourage them to respond to   that which is so important. And one way in  which sport can be so valuable is it does   encourage healthy risk taking, I think, in  the way Eileen just mentioned, which can be   within a really healthy parameter, but can show  people that they can be in their discomfort zone,   overcome a challenge, and feel better from it  and experience some, kind of, growth from that. Dr Jane Gilmour And Dominique. Dr Dominique Thompson So, I just wanted to  add about the parents and the role modelling,   and, you know, it’s normal and natural for us to  want to avoid young people being uncomfortable and   having, you know, difficult scenarios, situations,  of course, and I get where it comes from. But we   do have to help young people to understand that  being a little bit uncomfortable for a while,   or even sometimes a lot uncomfortable,  if you’re doing DevGold, for example,   for a few days is actually completely  normal, and that it’s through that that   we learn. So I think the first thing is, is  we older people have to get used to letting   them be a little bit uncomfortable. And  also sometimes our preconceived ideas can,   you know, obviously influence a lot of  what we are facilitating for our kids. So, I had a mum the other day ask me – and I do  – again, I always understand where it comes from,   a really good place, but she said, you know, how  does she help her son who’s just been rejected   from all the universities he’s applied to? And she  said, “Because when he gets into the real world,   he’s have – he’s going to have to deal with  all sorts of things.” And my first thing was   really just to say, very gently, “This is his  real world.” You know, the idea that somehow   school isn’t real or, you know, all of these  things they’re experiencing isn’t real or as   important for them, I think that’s the first thing  to just shift. This is their real world and this   is where they learn. And, actually, when we had a  conversation, it turned out he wasn’t dealing with   it too badly, he’d already started thinking, well,  I’m probably going to have a gap year and then see   where I go from there. So, I think it was more her  preconceived ideas, and completely understandable   concerns, that was making it a, kind of, a very  stressful scenario. So, I do think we do risk,   as you say, “telegraphing” that if we’re not  able to reflect on how we feel about things. Dr Eileen Kennedy-Moore I had a client recently  who, she was very, very scared because she was   going to be doing track for the first time, and I  was talking to her the night before and she goes,   “I’m so nervous about this, I’ve never done  anything like this. I don’t know if I’m going to   be any good at this, and I don’t know who’s going  to be on the team and” – worry after worry after   worry. And then I said to her, “Congratulations.  I am so happy for you. I wish you many moments   like this.” I knew her very well, and, of course,  she rolled her eyes at me, and – but it was true,   you know, that this feeling of, “Oh my gosh,  I don’t know if I can do this, I don’t know   what to expect,” that is wonderful, that’s how we  grow. Otherwise, we’re just sitting on the couch. Dr Jane Gilmour And I think this is interesting,  because, of course, during the adolescence phase,   we are awash with these self-referencing emotions,  and we always talk, as the adults supporting young   people, about the potential challenges, quite  rightly, like, shame and negative comparisons.   But can you think about time when – and that  really raised this idea, Eileen, times when these   powerful emotions have had a positive effect,  like, driving healthy competition? Perhaps,   Deborah, or Pete, you might want to come on to  that. What about these self-referencing emotions?   Pete. Professor Pete Etchells  Deborah, do you want to go first? Professor Deborah Christie  No, happy for you to continue. Professor Pete Etchells So, I think it  goes back to a lot of what we’re talking   about at the minute, that when – so I think  one thing to say is that we do genuinely live   in a time of uncertainty, right? You know,  there’s a lot of horrible stuff going on,   and I think as adults we’re very aware of that,  and what I think that does for us as adults is   focus us on the negatives all the time, so  we miss those positive moments. And it – and   that’s happened to what feels like quite  an extreme extent over the past year or so,   that it’s very hard to find, sort of, positivity  stories, particularly about online lives,   about what’s happening in the teenage world,  as it were, in teenagers’ lives at the minute. But when you talk to teenagers and you actually  try and get into this in a bit more of a deeper   sense, you do find that you find these amazing  ways of being creative, you know, using things   like social media and online platforms in ways  that we don’t necessarily understand as adults,   even if we’re really tech literate, we don’t  necessarily understand them, because that’s,   kind of, the point. But ways in which they can  express themselves and, you know, talk about the   things that are worrying in the world, but in a  productive and constructive way that is for them.   And I think we need to remember that that’s okay,  that’s part of what they need to do as teenagers. Dr Jane Gilmour And I like the way you’re  describing the importance of having a,   sort of, exclusive club to which, you know,  it is somewhere where young people can speak.   I think this is interesting, ‘cause sometimes I  ask young people to translate their social media,   their – the way they use punctuation, for  example, is completely different from the   way we do. And I think that’s really interesting,  ‘cause it does suggest there’s a nuance in their   discussion which I think we are missing, and  we sometimes get a little bit spooked by,   without being, you know, lacking some  care and attention to our young people. Now, look, we have got a lot of questions coming  from the floor, and I want to have a chance to get   to these. We may be able to come back to some of  the questions I’ve got here, we haven’t even got   through half of them, but I want our audience  to have a chance to have a voice. So, I am   going to start with a question here from – now,  I think – I hope I’m pronouncing this correctly,   Dwok Ing. And this person is saying, “We know from  brain studies that teenagers are happy to take,   or more likely to take, risk activities. Can  you talk a little bit more about the science   behind it and how can we encourage more positive  risk?” Now I am thinking here that Dominique,   you might want to come to this one, ‘cause  this was the area that we discussed, wasn’t it? Dr Dominique Thompson Yeah, absolutely. So,  the thing about risk for teenagers is that it   feels amazing, absolutely brilliant when they  do exciting things. And as I think about it,   and the way I’ve read about it, ‘cause I am not a  Neuroscientist, I was a GP for many years and we   are very practical, but we are not always so  academic, but, basically, I think of it like   a Christmas tree that lights up when they  do something exciting. And, at my age, it’s   more like that little Christmas light that goes  pssst, when I try and do something exciting. So,   that’s – you know, they’re getting this amazing  reward for doing new and exciting things, and they   don’t always have the biological handbrake to stop  them doing some of the things, like, skateboarding   down some steps that they might want to do, or  they might not think about it before they do it. So, we’ve got all of this going on and it is, you  know, it is really important that they do that,   to explore the world they’re in. But what  we have seen, in some areas of their lives,   is less risk taking and more anxiety and  hesitancy to do things. Whether that’s, you know,   going out with their friends and having parties,  and there are – I mean, obviously there are still   teens doing that, but the studies do show that in  a lot of countries that risk taking behaviour has   reduced a bit. And, you know, for me, if we’re  going to get them taking the positive risks,   we’ve got to sometimes start small. I think that  I would say, you know, “If you’re not sure where   to start, start small.” If they manage that  and it might be I’ll – you know, I sometimes   get parents who talk to me about, well, you  know, the food that they’ve restricted to,   not because it’s such a food eating disorder  type thing, but just they’re so anxious,   it’s just change, it’s just uncomfortable. So it  might just be a new pizza topping, that might be   the first thing, you know. So, you might just  start small and then you build from there. Some kids will still be so happy  to, you know, jump off a cliff,   into the water, obviously not just off a  cliff, coasteering, or they be wanting to do,   you know, a parachute jump or whatever, obviously  there will always be those kids, that’s great.   But we are definitely seeing this shift to  being more, you know, stay at home and so on,   and I do get parents who say, “I would love  them to actually go out more, they’re just,   sort of, sitting next to me on the sofa, watching  TV with me, but I can’t get them to go out.” So,   I do think we have an issue where  we need to start small and build up. Dr Jane Gilmour That’s wonderful. Dr Eileen Kennedy-Moore The other thing… Dr Jane Gilmour Sorry, yes, Eileen. Dr Eileen Kennedy-Moore And another thing that  I think is really important to think about,   at least in my practice, I see this a lot, I had a  middle school girl once who I’d seen for a while,   and she finally worked up the courage to tell  me her deepest fear. And I’m telling you,   this kid was vibrating as she said this,  and she told me, “What if I grow up to be   ordinary?” And I don’t remember what I said to  her, but I remember very vividly what I thought,   which is, oh, honey, we’re all ordinary except  to the people who love us. But I see this a lot,   of the idea that “I have to be amazing or I’m  worthless.” So, we’ve got to poke back at that,   and the only comparison that matters is  me now versus me before, because that’s my   growth. Me versus somebody else, hmmm, you  know, the world is a race that looks like,   “On your marks, get set, go,” and everybody  goes in eight million different directions,   so what they’re doing over there doesn’t  really matter. What do you want to learn?   What do you want to try? What do you want  to explore? Those are interesting question. Dr Jane Gilmour So, using… Dr Eileen Kennedy-Moore Who’s  better? I don’t really care. Dr Jane Gilmour So, using the self-referencing  to reference ones past self, I like that.   I’ve got another question here and  I think this could be a good one   for Deborah. “Could you give me some  tools for a teenager with dyslexia,   communication and emotional issues?”  Any “tools,” this questioner is asking? Professor Deborah Christie In 30 seconds. Dr Jane Gilmour If you could, Deborah. Professor Deborah Christie Okay, I think the  first tool is to be very, very clear what kind   of dyslexia it is. It de – the kind of tools are  entirely dependent upon whether the difficulty is   with being able to recognise the pattern,  the deep surface structure of the word,   whether you can see what the word looks like,  or whether it’s a phonological disorder, i.e.,   that they don’t have the ability to make  the sounds. And there’s a misconception that   dyslexia is all the same, so the very first  thing that you have to do is understand what   is the nature of the difficulty, and  from that flows the management of it. The other tool is awareness, is making sure that  people understand that the dyslexia does not equal   stupidity, or a lack of intellectual ability.  It’s a very interesting question for me. My   granddaughter has been diagnosed with dyslexia.  She has a really, really high Q – high IQ,   really smart kid, top five percentile for ability.  She can’t read more than about three words,   she’s eight, she’s really, really stuck. So,  get it recognised, get people aware of it,   and then start looking at what you need to  do, depending on what the difficulties are. Dr Jane Gilmour Excellent. That was a very  succinct summary of a very complex dataset. Now,   we’re going to come onto a tech question  in a moment, but, before we do that,   I have a question here about how to get reluctant  parents involved in supporting young people. Now,   this is a really interesting question, because,  of course, we need parental involvement and   motivation to some degree. Does anybody – I’m  wondering about Rosie, you’re working a lot with   young people who are reluctant, so are there any  skills that you might want to share, in terms of   enticing reluctant participants into the working  forum? Or any other members of the panel, Rosie,   I’m going to ask you first, but the other members  of the panel want to – might want to jump in. Professor Rosie Meek Yeah, I mean, firstly, can  we try and make things fun? The world is a very   serious place and if we can make things  fun people will usually want to engage,   that goes for our young people, our parents. But,  also, I mean, more seriously, a lot of my work now   is underpinned by a co-designing or co-creating  commitment that I have, because I think for all   too long we’ve done things to our troubled  young people. And actually, some of the most   profound experiences I’ve had in my practice is  engaging with some very challenging children and   young people in custody and co-designing with them  programmes to support them. And they know better   than anyone else what they need, they just need a  bit of help along the way and a bit of confidence   in them, and that’s where I’ve seen some of  the most exciting transformations, actually. Dr Jane Gilmour That’s interesting. I  love that idea, making it fun and engaging,   and, do you know, it might help. Deborah. Professor Deborah Christie Deborah, can I kick  in with this one? The question was around “how   do you engage parents,” wasn’t it? I think the  very – the only way you’ll ever engage parents   is by not blaming them, and by recognising  that every single parent is doing their best,   whatever they’re doing, and that it’s far too  easy for people in – the clever people in the   health caring professions to blame them for the  problems of their child. So, I think if as a   healthcare professional you start from a premise  that parents mean well, want to do their best and   have the very best intention, you’re in with  a start to engage those parents in the work. Dr Jane Gilmour Yeah, and meet them where  they are. And I think that that idea of,   you know – because it is easy to have  a very clear framework, but, you know,   we have got to have some empathy  for the position that everybody   in the room is experiencing. I really  enjoy that, okay. That’s a great point. Now, I’ve got a lot of questions on tech, but  one that stands out, which is very interesting,   and I’m interested to hear about what the panel  think, if AI will affect social media and,   in turn, what impact might it  have on teen development? Pete,   I’m going to start with you, but other members  of the panel will have comments to make. Professor Pete Etchells I think the short  answer there is, “Yes, it will.” And, for me,   this is why we’ve been having, kind  of, little conversations around the   importance of digital literacy and fluency for  a while now, but they never really go anywhere,   but it’s starting to get to the  point where it’s really crucial now,   and being able to understand what these sorts of  systems do and how they work. I think there’s a   lot of misunderstanding at the minute around  what AI and what generative AI actually is,   you know. It’s not AI, it’s not like  Terminator-style thinking machines, and   I think there’s a lot of misunderstanding around  that. And understanding how these sorts of systems   generate content, and on what they’re basing that  information, in the same way as understanding how   recommender algorithms work on YouTube or Netflix  or Instagram, understanding what’s underpinning   that and what your input is doing to have an  effect, is such an important part of this. There’s a lot of Researchers starting to talk  not so much about “digital literacy” now,   but more specifically around “algorithmic  literacy,” and really trying to get people   understand – to understand how content is,  sort of, manifested on social media feeds,   where it comes from, and getting people  generally, but teenagers specifically,   to understand that it doesn’t necessarily  say something about you when you start   seeing content that you’re not happy with, say,  that this is not your fault, or that, you know,   this is what you’re like, or you deserve  this, but this is a product of an algorithmic   system essentially going wrong. Doesn’t fix  everything, by any stretch of the imagination,   but it’s the first stage in understanding how  to, kind of, course correct, as it were, and I   think the conversations around AI are just making  that a little bit more pressing at the minute. Dr Jane Gilmour Anybody want to add to that?  I’ve got a lot of questions here. I’m going   to – I think we’ve got time for one more, which I  will sort of represent some of the questions. Now,   here, I think, Rosie, you may have something to  say. The question here is “I’d love to hear your   views on LGBTQ kid plus – plus kids and their  access to services and the way they’re treated   in justice and protection services.” Any thoughts  on that? We do have quite a lot of questions on   trans issues, but we won’t be able to come  onto that, but as a question in terms of the   treatment in justice and protection services,  Rosie, do you have any thoughts on that one? Professor Rosie Meek Yeah, I think it’s  just another example of how we have to   deal with the young person who’s in front of us  in these situations that we find ourselves in,   in justice settings, doing the right thing as  a professional, as a parent, as a caregiver.   And the fact that all too often we don’t  take a particularly holistic approach to   the young people in front of us, with lots  of different services who might be engaging   with the same young person at one time and  they can be quite conflicting at times. So,   I think it’s another reason why as much  multiagency partnership working and   collaborative working is so important.  I know that’s quite a generic answer,   but it – for me, I think it’s always important  with the young people that we’re working with. Dr Jane Gilmour But I think this is, again,  taking the principles and thinking how they   would apply elsewhere, I think that’s absolutely  right. Anything to add to that from the panel?   We – I’m so grateful ‘cause these questions are  wonderful. I think what it does tell us, ACAMH,   is that we would need another roundtable  to come to all of the questions because   there is a plethora. We, unfortunately,  are coming to the end of this discussion. Now, I recently watched some teenagers doing a  hip hop dance performance, and it was full of   energy and discipline and skill, and it was a good  reminder to me what a privilege it is to be around   young people. I want a couple of sentences from  each of the panel, some feel good stories about   young people. Deborah, I’m going to ask you  because you are in front of my screen first. Professor Deborah Christie A feel good story,  yes. So, I worked with a young person who’d   been written off completely as somebody  who would never walk or talk or function   again. And ten years later, I went and bought two  beautiful Michelin star birthday cakes from him… Dr Jane Gilmour Aha, I love that. Professor Deborah Christie …for my  grandchildren, so he turned out okay. Dr Jane Gilmour Yeah, he turned out – Eileen. Dr Eileen Kennedy-Moore So, we know the answer of  what kids need, and this is from research by Ryan   and Deci, the three fundamental needs that they  have are connection, competence and autonomy. So,   we – and the competence means both acquiring  skills and embracing the learning process,   and the connection is people who know them and  value them, and the choice – the autonomy is   about making decisions, or at least having  a rationale that makes sense for them. And   I think a beautiful example of this is –  they were friends with one of my daughters,   they started a group focused on how people’s  ethnic identities relates to their – who they   are and how they interact with people. And there  were two girls who worked really closely together,   they were best friends and they lived and breathed  this topic, they ended up writing a book and… Dr Jane Gilmour Oh, I love that.  You see, taking that – 4259]… Dr Eileen Kennedy-Moore …doing a TED Talk and… Dr Jane Gilmour …autonomy. Dr Eileen Kennedy-Moore …just… Dr Jane Gilmour Wonderful. Dr Eileen Kennedy-Moore …travelling  around the country, I mean, it’s just… Dr Jane Gilmour Give them  wings and they shall fly. Dr Eileen Kennedy-Moore There you go. Dr Jane Gilmour Fantastic. Dr Eileen Kennedy-Moore There you go. Dr Jane Gilmour Pete. Dr Eileen Kennedy-Moore Yes. Dr Jane Gilmour Pete. Professor Pete Etchells Sorry, I’m going to be… Dr Jane Gilmour And Dominique. Professor Pete Etchells …I’m going to be  biased, ‘cause I’ll talk about my daughter. Dr Jane Gilmour Yeah. Professor Pete Etchells So, my daughter’s five,  so a bit younger than the group that we’re talking   about at the minute, but I got up for the school  run the other morning, this is about three or four   days ago, and I couldn’t find her in her room,  she’d gone, and I was wondering where she’d gone.   And found her downstairs, and it was a, sort of,  an amazing situation where she’d got up before   anybody else in the house and got herself dressed  and ready for school, and she was just sat there   quietly drawing a drawing. And I said, “What are  you doing?” And she said, “Oh, one of my friends   at school was really kind to me yesterday,  so I’m just creating her a thank you card.” Dr Eileen Kennedy-Moore Aw. Dr Jane Gilmour There we go, we’ll… Professor Pete Etchells And… Dr Jane Gilmour …take that, Pete,  that is wonderful. She’s a good one,   wonderful. Dominique, and then Rosie. Dr Dominique Thompson So, mine is about  my 15-year-old and all his buddies,   so they sometimes let me hover around the edges  in my own kitchen when they are all hanging out   here and they make me laugh; their humour is so  funny. They have so much banter. They clearly   love each other as a big group, but they’re also  very good at taking the mick out of us oldies,   in a very nice gentle way, but, also they – you  know, the other day I dared to ask if any of them   was vegetarian or vegan, you know, preparing to  – “Utter woke nonsense,” they all shouted at me,   even though they obviously – some of them  are, because they see the boomer question,   the boomer follow-up, “Aren’t you all  vegan these days?” So, they get there… Dr Jane Gilmour And… Dr Dominique Thompson …first, and even as… Dr Jane Gilmour …they were – the warmth, but the  warmth of allowing you in and letting you be part… Dr Dominique Thompson Yes. Dr Jane Gilmour I love that, and Rosie. Dr Dominique Thompson They just make me laugh. Professor Rosie Meek Oh, I see a feel good story  in prisons up and down the country. Every Saturday   we’ve had some success in in offering parkrun in  prisons and some people will be familiar with the   concept of parkrun, where people do free five  kilometre timed runs every Saturday morning in   our parks around the country. And it’s been so  heartwarming to have these initiatives in our   prisons, behind prison walls, including in a  number of our young offenders institutes and   youth prisons, and seeing people come together,  whether they’re running, walking, volunteering,   supporting, cheering on, to do something healthy  and activity-based and to maybe even get a   personal best. And to forget for maybe half an  hour or an hour or so that they are behind prison   walls, and to do something that they’re really  proud of. And I’ve had young men say to me, “As a   result of doing this, I’ve got something positive  to tell my mum about when she comes to visit me.” Dr Jane Gilmour Well, there you go. Professor Rosie Meek You  know, that’s very important. Dr Jane Gilmour Just want to  please your mum, there you are,   that’s not a bad thing. I love these  stories, and I think these are important,   an important way to leave this roundtable, ‘cause  we have talked about some of the challenges that   present to young people and how we can support  them, but there’s a lot to be hopeful about too.   So, I hope you leave this event convinced by  the transformative power of the literature,   inspired and energised, I have, and ready to embed  these themes into your practice or research. And   certainly, for me, it’s been wonderful to  be part of this community, one that puts   young people’s wellbeing at its heart. So, many  thanks to our audience for these thoughtful and   insightful questions. I’m sorry we didn’t get  to many more of them, we will do part two,   if we can, and, of course, enormous gratitude to  each member of our superb expert panel. Thank you.