Hello. We are the Association for Child and Adolescent Mental Health, or ACAMH for short. Hi, everyone. And a very warm welcome. Thank you so much for joining us today. We are really glad you're here. My name is [INAUDIBLE], and I'm a Content and Events Producer at ACAMH. And it's a real pleasure to welcome our speaker, Eileen Kennedy-Moore, a clinical psychologist, author, and mum of four based in Princeton, New Jersey, US. Eileen shares her expertise not only through her clinical work, but also through her books for children and parents. Her widely read blog on Psychology Today, and her weekly podcasts where she answers children's questions about friendships. Today's session, five friendship skills every child needs to learn focuses on one of the most important parts of childhood friendships. Eileen will introduce five essential skills that help children connect with others and build lasting relationships, and she will share practical everyday strategies that parents can use to guide and support their children. The session will run for about 90 minutes, and everyone is very welcome to use the chat throughout to share reflections or thoughts. And if you have questions you'd like Eileen to address, please submit them using the Q&A function at the bottom of your screen. We leave it-- we leave some time at the end for her to respond. A simple reminder that delegates are not permitted to record, transcribe, or capture any part of this session, including using AI based tools such as other AI. Thank you again for being here, Eileen. A very warm welcome. And over to you. Thank you, [INAUDIBLE] I'm delighted to be here. So let me share my screen. Good. So welcome, everyone. I'm delighted to be here. Before we begin-- so I'm in the US, and I just feel like I have to mention the elephant in the room and say, I am so sorry for what is happening in my country, and all I can say is that pretty much everybody I know is horrified and baffled and just feeling really, really helpless. But we're going to do what we always do in hard times. We're going to show up to take care of the children, to take care of our communities, and we'll see what we can do. I've heard from people in Minnesota that it is way worse than we see in the media, and the resistance is way better, so we'll see what happens. But today, we're just going to talk about children's friendship skills, specifically five friendship skills that every child needs to learn. Friendships matter. They make the good times more fun and the hard times easier to get through. But friendships are more than just fun. Research tells us that when children have even one reciprocal friend, they have better self-esteem. They feel less lonely. They cope better with stress, they're less likely to be bullied, and they even have more positive attitudes towards school. Most kids show up for school not because of the exciting curriculum, but because they want to see their friends. But friendship can be complicated. Almost every child struggles socially in some way at some time. Maybe they focusing on trying to make a friend in a new classroom or in a new activity. Maybe they're having an argument with a friend, or dealing with teasing, or feeling left out when a friend spends time with someone else. These dilemmas are typical, but they can be very painful. So I'm going to throw out a whole bunch of different ideas of ways that we as adults, as parents and professionals, can support children's friendships. And I'm going to leave it to you to keep the things that are relevant and ignore what isn't for the child that you're concerned about. But I want you to keep two main ideas in mind as we're going through these things. The first is that there is no one way to be social. Not everybody has to be a bounding into the room life of the party extrovert. There are room-- there's room in the world for a quieter way of interacting. And as parents and people who care about kids, we need to find that balance between treasuring who our children really are and helping them grow in their own special way. The other theme that I want you to keep in mind is that friendship rough spots are actually learning opportunities. And we'll talk more about that as we go through. So what I want you to do now is to look at this cartoon. This is from one of my books, Growing Friendships, a kid's guide to making and keeping friends, which is available in the UK. And it's-- what I want you to do, is think about what is it that this child hasn't learned yet? So this is Brandon's challenge. We see him sitting in a classroom and he's thinking, oh, no, it's recess time, I hate recess, I never know what to do. Then in the second square, we see him out on the playground and it looks like he's reading a book. And he's saying he's thinking to himself, everyone else is having fun, but they don't seem to notice I'm around. I guess I'll just read my book. So if you can put in the chat. What is it that Brandon hasn't learned yet? I'm sure many of you know kids like Brandon. I'm going to ask Guido to-- Guido to mention any comments in the chat. What is it-- We have our first-- oh, sorry. Go ahead. We have a first set of responses to change his thinking. Maybe how to initiate conversation or suggest play, how to initiate conversations. He might need to be more proactive and not expect everyone to come to him. Absolutely, yes. Excellent. So the first and most basic friendship skill is reaching out. This is where we begin the relationship or we show people that we care. So this is the foundational one of all the friendship skills. And shy children tend to struggle with this because they're focused on their own distress. And so they look down or they look away and they're just focusing on, oh, my goodness, I feel so uncomfortable here. But the message that they're sending to other people is I don't like you. I don't want anything to do with you. So we can help with this by teaching children how to greet people. There are four steps to a friendly greeting. You make eye contact or if that's uncomfortable for the child, they can look the people in the forehead in between the eyebrows. From a little bit of a distance, you can't tell the difference. So you look them in the eyes or in the forehead. You smile to show that you're happy to see them. You say hi, and if you can, try to say the person's name because that makes the greeting more personal. The single best thing that I think-- the single thing that I believe keeps kids from making friends, is what I call the magnet myth of friendship. So here we see a boy standing on a pedestal and he's thinking, aren't amazing? And on the left, we see one boy thinking, ''Yikes, I'm being pulled toward him." And the girl says, ''I can't resist his magnetic personality." This is a myth. This never happens. So if the kid is trying to think that they have to make themselves better, if they have to be impressive in order to make friends, that is wrong. If you're looking for that wow, you're amazing reaction, you are not looking for friends, you're looking for fans. And guess what, your peers don't want to be your fan. So another thing that happens a lot that I see in my practise is that kids don't recognise that there are different scripts for connecting with adults versus children. So they'll go up to a peer and say, I can do this, and I can do that. And if they do that with an adult, the adult is going to say, oh, isn't that wonderful? But the peer is not going to respond that. They're going to say, quit bragging or you're being annoying. And the kid is going to-- the first child is going to feel hurt because they feel rejected. But the truth is that they're not getting the script for connecting with kids. Friendship is fundamentally a relationship between equals. So if we imagine a Venn diagram with one kid and the other kid, the overlap in the centre, that's the common ground. That's where friendships begin. If kid one is talking about something that's true only of them, that little x over there, that is irrelevant to bringing-- to building a friendship. So we want kids to figure out what do you have in common with the other child, especially, what do you both like to do? And that can be a way to connect. Well, how do we find that common ground? One way is to ask interested questions. That could begin with how or what. So how and what give more elaborate answers so that can be helpful. I caution kids to avoid why questions because, why did you do that? Can sound very judgmental. So we want to be careful there. The best way for kids to build friendships is to do fun things together. So if you have a child who's struggling to connect with peers, talk with them about what is it that you like to do that you could do with other people. And then we want to create opportunities for them to be able to do that. A sincere complement is a very easy way to reach out to someone. So just say something like, I like your shirt or that was a good shot in whatever sport they're playing. Or I liked your presentation or, huh, that's cool the way you're drawing that. A sincere complement is like a little gift for someone, and it's just a very gentle and easy way to slide into a conversation with someone. With some kids you have to be careful and just say just one. So because if they say, I like your shirt, I like your pants, I like your socks, I like your shoes. That can come across as insincere and it's just too much. So one sincere complement is good. Small acts of kindness are another very basic way to connect with somebody that could be sharing or helping us. So if the other kid drops something, help them pick it up, even though you didn't make the mess. And that's just a way of expressing liking and a good way of reaching out to someone. And this is one that I've had to mention since the pandemic get together in person. So I find that a lot of kids resist this. They got too comfortable just hanging out by themselves, hanging out at home. But there's something different about being together in person. I don't know if it's body temperature or pheromones or just the immediacy of it all, but it's very important. The single best thing that parents can do to help kids deepen their friendships is to host one on one get togethers for the kids. Now, some kids are resistant to that and we can nudge them a little bit. We could say on a Wednesday you need to invite somebody, pick or mommy picks, or with older kids or kids who won't even go for that. The parents can have a family game night. I used to do this all the time when my kids were younger. I would invite another family over with matching kid ages after dinner. So I didn't even have to make a meal. And then we would play a game. Usually kids against the grownups, because that's a lot of fun. If they lose, they're just grownups. If they win, it's just delicious. And then I would bring out fruit and dessert. The kids would go off and play, and I got a play date, too, because I got to visit with the other parents. So you're in charge of who's invited to your home. So let's pause for a moment and talk about are there any questions about this first skill of reaching out? You can write them in the chat or in the question section. So do we have any questions? We have one first question. That is what about with an autism spectrum disorder lens? So with the kids in the autism spectrum family, for them it's even more important to give them the rules that they don't necessarily pick up on their own. And this is not about forcing, masking. This is about giving children the choice. Do you want to-- do you want to reach out to somebody? Because if they don't know how, they don't have a choice about doing this. So I think we don't assume, oh, they're on the autism spectrum. It's hopeless. Not at all. Kids on the autism spectrum do want to have connections. They do want to have people that they feel comfortable with and that they care about and who care them-- care back about them. But they often need some guidance and some help in creating those relationships. Their interests can be a great source of connecting with peers. I've had kids who became experts on a certain video game. And that social cred when they're talking with their peers, not in the sense of, oh, I'm so great, but in the sense of here's a thing that we can both talk about that we both enjoy. Thank you. We have some other questions. What is the peer the child speaks to is mean to them? I'm so glad you said that because it does make sense to choose kind kids to reach out to. And sometimes kids will opt for the most popular kids, but if they don't have anything in common or that popular kid is on the aggressive side, that's not going to go well. So we can strategize with children about who seems open to you reaching out to them. And when my children were young, I used to tell them that and they were starting a new class, I would say, somewhere in your new classroom is a child who is just waiting to be your friend. And they would-- when they were little, they would ask, what does she look like? Or what's his name? And I would say, I don't know. You have to figure that out. And then we would talk about what are some signs that the other person might be interested in being your friend? What are the clues? And it would be, of course, smiling at them, playing with them, just being kind to them, and pretty soon they would come home and say, I figured it out, I know who it is. If they're on the lookout for friendly behaviour, they're more likely to see it. So let's move on to the second skill. So here's a cartoon. Think about what is it that this child hasn't learned? This is Aidan's challenge. So this is a classroom setting. Again, we see the girl in front saying, Aidan, you're so annoying. Quit kicking my chair. I've asked you four times. And Aidan says, haha, Aidan, you're so annoying. Quit kicking my chair. I've asked you four times. Then we have the teacher say, Aidan, please stop bothering Julia or you'll have to sit by yourself at the back table. And Aidan replies, I was just joking. What is it that Aidan hasn't learned? How to connect-- can read a few responses. How to connect in more healthy ways, other people feelings, maybe timing and how not to be annoying. Exactly, exactly. So the second important friendship skill for that every child needs to learn is stepping back. As important as it is to reach out to other kids, it's also important to step back. We all know people who come on too strong or end up irritating people. So being able to step back is about acknowledging other people's feelings, it's about self control. So let's talk about some strategies for helping children learn this important skill. The first is to just notice signs of annoyance. We don't want to wait until they're yelling at the kid or furiously angry. So with some kids in my practise, what I'll do is we'll brainstorm together and list stop signals. What are the signs that other people want you to stop? And it could be things like saying stop or quit it or you're being annoying. Kids can be very direct. And sometimes it's a non-verbal signal. So they go-- or they're looking away or walking away or running away. All of those are stop signals, and it means whatever's going on, you need to stop. If you don't stop, that's like saying to the other person, I don't care how you feel, and that's not a good way to connect with other people. Now, some kids have an easier time than others with stopping, so we may have to give them specific strategies for stopping. This could be for the little ones sitting on their hands or crossing their arms and giving themselves a little squeeze. Or it could be pretending that their tongue is stuck to the roof of their mouth and they can't talk. Or with the older kids, sometimes I'll have them make a statement like, I'll stop now. Now this is a little bit unusual, but it signals to the other person, I hear you, I'm working on it, and that can be very helpful. And it gives the kid just that extra two to three seconds of braking room that they might need to rein it in. Another example of a stopping skill is apologising. This is often the best way to repair when there's been a friendship rough spot. Kids need to learn how to apologise, so sorry is not going to cut it. What I recommend is to say, I'm sorry for, and then do what you can to make it right. Or if you can't do anything immediately, you could say, from now on, I'll do whatever it is. So a lot of kids have trouble apologising because they think that it means admit your badness, admit that there's no redeeming qualities to you whatsoever. And that's not what an apology is at all. An apology, I think, is really an expression of caring for the other person. So if you hurt or upset another person, of course you feel sorry about that. So of course you want to tell them. Now, on the flip side, other kids have trouble with apologising because they apologise constantly. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm sorry. And the rule of thumb that I give my clients is that you don't want to apologise more than twice. So think about it. The first apology is good because you're showing that you care for the other person. The second apology might be good if it was a serious thing, the person was very upset. And you just want to emphasise the depth of your remorse. But if you keep apologising, what happens? Then the focus flips from the injured party to the person who did the wrong thing. And now, the injured party has to comfort the kid who did the mistake. So that's backwards. We don't want to do that. So I tell kids, if you apologise more than twice, that's like a racing the apology. So don't do that. Another example that somebody mentioned is that we want to teach kids how to do calming self-talk. So when a bad thing happens, children by definition lack perspective because they just haven't lived that much. They haven't been around that long. So being able to talk themselves down from those rough spots is very, very important. If children or adults say things to themselves like, this is horrible, it's the worst thing ever. I can't stand it. It's ruining my whole life. They're going to feel worse and worse. So I'll write those out sometimes, and sometimes get kids to insert some of the comments that make us feel worse in a bad situation. Not helpful. The opposite of those upsetting spiral comments is not to say this is great. I love it when it's not true. So lying to ourselves isn't going to be helpful. But we can say things that acknowledge that whatever happened is will contain. It is not huge and it also acknowledges our ability to cope with it. So some sample statements are I'll get through it. It won't last forever. I've dealt with hard problems before so I can deal with this. I don't like it, but I'm strong enough to handle it. That's my favourite. So with kids, sometimes we'll write these out. Sometimes they want them on an index card. Sometimes we just brainstorm of possible ones to say. And you can almost see as you say these things, it just lowers your upset, lowers your arousal, and makes the thing seem more manageable. In schools in the US, and I'm pretty sure in the UK as well, we often emphasise calming strategies. This could be mindfulness exercises or sensory exercises have a jar with water and glitter. You shake it and then you watch the glitter settle. And these can be wonderful. But in my practise, I have had more than a few kids come in and tell me I hate breathing. And it's not that they really hate breathing. It's that they hate being told to sit still and be quiet. And some kids just need a more active way of settling themselves. One example that I recommend in schools all the time is have a stack of books and ask the kid to bring it to another teacher's classroom so that teachers can set this up beforehand. But the holding the heavy books and carrying them, moving their bodies, getting out of the situation, that can be a really good way to settle their bodies and their minds. Another possibility is to do brain breaks. There are a lot of these. You can look on YouTube and you'll find millions of them. But let me just mention a couple or a few that I've found useful. One is what's called paper juggling. So you take a piece of paper and you put it flat on your hand, and then you try to pass it behind you and bring it out again in front. And that takes a lot of focus and concentration and coordination. So it's fun. So this is one you can do with me. So put your hands like this. And then now raise one finger and one thumb like that. Now switch and keep doing it. So very quickly, you get messed up. But this is a good one. Because you're just focusing on it. And I'm not doing very well today. But it's a fun thing to try. It's a little bit of distraction to pull them out. I don't know if these actually do something in the brain. That's not my field. But they take that focus, they're fun. And it can just change the tone and the mood. Another good one that can be useful is to touch a hand to the opposite foot. So you can do this in front. One side. Other side. One side. Other side. You can also do it in back. One side. Other side. One side, other side. Some people say there's something to doing cross body motions. I have no idea. But it's fun and it can help kids resettle. So do we have any questions about the skill of stepping back? We do have a question. Sometimes kids seem really resistant to practise calming techniques. Why do you think they push back against them? And do you have any-- I think you address some of these but do you have any other suggestions for how to explain these strategies in a way that encourages more acceptance? So I think we want to really individualise it. And we want to give the kids some choice as well that you can usually get more buy in if the kid doesn't feel controlled. And sit there quietly and don't move. That makes a lot of kids feel controlled. And breathing is great. The deep breathing exercises, we all use them and they can be very helpful unless the kid doesn't want to do it. And then we're going to move to something that fits that child better usually a more active strategy. Sometimes people get a little fetish about breathing exercises. That oh, you have to-- this is the right way to breathe. No, it isn't. I saw one thing where it was like star breathing. So that's way too complicated. It's basically what we want to do is to settle their bodies, distract so they're not ruminating and revving themselves up. And we pick the strategy that matches the kid. Sometimes we can just-- we want to introduce the strategies at a calm moment because when they're really up in the rafters, it's harder for them to do the things that we want to do. So if we have a plan that we made during a calm moment, you're more likely to get it. If we have options or choices with some kids, I've had index cards, pick your own adventure. Which one of these would you like to do? Not too many, because we don't want it to be overwhelming. There's another strategy that I didn't include in here, which is probably the fastest calming strategy that I've seen, and that is math. So what's 100 minus 7, 93. Minus 7, 86. So you keep doing this. And it's not hard math, but you have to think, the 3 and the 4, the 2 and the 5, and it can pull people out of the situation. So there are a million options. Use ones that feel good to this particular child. So let's move on to another cartoon. Think about what is it that Mckenzie hasn't learned yet? So on the left, we see Mckenzie sitting at the town pool. She's on a blanket and there are a bunch of girls look like they're having a lot of fun in the water. And then in the next one, the next cartoon box, we see Mckenzie's mum saying, Mckenzie, why aren't you playing with the other girls? And Mckenzie says, they didn't ask me to play with them. What is it that Mckenzie hasn't learned yet? Go ahead and put it in the chat. To initiate? Says, to ask? Yeah. So she's really holding herself back and waiting for the invitation, which we know is not going to happen. So I did a podcast episode on this recently, and I started out talking about how butlers used to bring letters to rich people on a silver platter. Well, most of us don't get invitations to join on a silver platter, so we have to figure out something else. This is the third skill which is blending in. So blending in is about enjoying the camaraderie of a group, and it's harder than the one on one friendship. Research tells us is that there's a developmental sequence that kids start having one friend, and then over time, they get into a group and they may drop down to one friend. But kids don't tend to go from 0 friends to a group. It's just harder to coordinate your activity with more people. So the first thing we have to do to talk about with kids is about making wise choices about which teams to join. And Brene Brown has a very important distinction between fitting in versus belonging. Fitting in is when I feel like I have to change myself in order to be accepted. Belonging is where I feel valued for who I really am. And this is an important issue to be talking about, especially with the preadolescents and adolescents as they get a little older in elementary school and into middle school. We want to make wise choices. So how do you know if a group is good for you? Here are some questions that might be worth talking about with the child you care about. How do you feel when you're with them? If you were upset about something, how would they react? Can you relax around them or do you feel like you have to be careful of what you say or do? Do you like who you are when you're with them? Asking works better than telling. So if we just come in strong and say, those are no good kids, don't hang around with them. Well, that's unlikely to be received well. And friendship is one of the few areas that children really do have autonomy about. But we can help them to think things through and to let it be their idea of who they want to join. Now, it's also important that they have options because sometimes kids will stick with a good-- not so kind friend or not so kind group because they really don't feel like they have any other options. So that's something where we adults can really help, and getting them involved, or making the time or the opportunity for them to hang out with kids who really would be a good fit. Researchers have found that there's a very specific sequence for how kids join a group. We adults tend to tell kids, go over there and introduce yourself and ask if you can play. Bad idea, because think about what's going to happen there. The other kids have to stop what they're doing. Look at our kid. And this is just too much of an opening for the mischievous kids to say, no, you can't play. So what is the magic sequence? Watch them blend. Watch what the kids are doing, and then slide into the action without interrupting it. So you don't want to ask, can I play because that's interrupting it. The other thing that we know from research is that kids are more likely to be successful joining either a single kid or a group of four or more. It's not that they can't join two's or three's, but those groups tend to be tighter, and if they don't know them well, it can be harder to get in. So a group of four or more, the boundaries tend to be a little lighter-- a little looser. So it's easier to get in. With older kids where it's less about play and more about conversation, the same principle applies. But here we talk about it in terms of match, the emotional tone of the group. So let's say that everybody is talking about the latest collectible, and our kid comes over and says, well, these are really stupid. I mean, they're just pictures printed on cardboard. That's like, there's a melody going on. And our kid comes in with a terrible bad note. Sour note. Or let's say all the kids are complaining about the history test, and our kid comes in and says, well, I thought it was easy. Again, sour notes. They're not matching the tone. Now, this is important. It doesn't mean that you have to lie and pretend that the test was easy, or pretend that you like something that you don't. But with the test example, you could say, oh, I can't believe that there were four short answers. Or I can't believe we had to do the history test the same week that we had to do the math test. So we're making an honest comment, but it's one that matches the tone, and that helps the kid blend in and be part of the group, as opposed to having a neon sign above their head saying, I don't belong here. Or with the collectibles. If you don't know about them, you could ask interested questions or give a compliment while you have a lot of them. Gosh, you know a lot about these things. Or oh, that one looks really cool. Or they can find another group where they all hate the collectibles and that can work also. So match the emotional tone of the group. This is a skill that parents tend to have difficulty with because at least in the US, people are like, well, I want my kid to be a leader, not a follower. And that's always a head scratcher to me because you can't lead until after you've joined. People aren't sitting around waiting for someone to lead them. So the blending in skill-- and/or sometimes I hear parents say, well, if they blend in, doesn't that mean they're going to do drugs? And it's like, no, they're more likely to do things that we don't want them to do in an effort to fit in if they don't know better ways of doing that. So this is a really important skill. And it's not about putting yourself down. It's about expanding your social circle. It takes skill and it's important. So do we have any questions about blending in? Let's see. And I have one meanwhile. What should parents do when their child seems to be fitting in well, but with a group that doesn't feel healthy or aligned with the family values, for example? That is very frustrating for parents. So some of it is like, is there a real danger or is this you just don't like the kids. If it's real danger, you might be looking for more opportunities for supervision, like maybe the get togethers happen at your place and not at the other place. Or maybe you befriend the other parents so that we've got some community support. And it's not just parenting on an island. The other thing that can be useful is to create other opportunities. So if they are, say, getting together with a friend who is hot and cold and one day they're nice and one day they're mean, give them the experience of hanging out with someone who's steady warm, and let them see the differences in how you feel. Sometimes you can also ask questions about, I've noticed that you seem to feel very different after you interact with this friend versus the other friend, what's going on or what have you noticed? And see if they can come up with it. We can't force a kid to be friends with someone, and it's pretty hard unless we're going to lock them in a tower like Rapunzel. It's pretty hard to control who they're going to interact with. So we want to help them to make good choices about who they're going to be with. Also, be careful, because your kid's version of what's going on may not be the whole picture. Michael Thompson has the-- he's an author of a bunch of books about friendship, but he has a great line that I wish I'd written. And his line is a description of a kid's perspective on conflict. And it goes, ''It all started when she kicked me back." This is so true. The eyes point outward, so it's very easy to see what the other kid did wrong. And it's not so hard for all of us even as adults, to recognise our part in the difficulty. So that doesn't mean we say to the kid, well, what did you do? But it does mean we just have a little bit of a grain of salt that maybe we're not getting the full picture of what's going on. Also, I think it's really important to recognise that kids are learning and this other person is a kid also. So I've seen some ugly situations with parents ostracising a particular child. Like how mean that is full on bullying. It's not OK. So let's look at the next cartoon. On the left, and think about what is it that Marla hasn't learned yet? On the left, we see two girls at lunchtime and the girl on the right says, oh, Marla, you have my favourite chocolate chip cookies. Can I trade my vanilla wafers for them? And Marla thinks, I really want my cookies. I hate vanilla wafers. But in the next block, what did she say? She says, OK, I guess so. But inside, she's thinking you're not welcome. I wanted to eat those. And the friend is thinking, these are delicious. Thank you. So what is it that Marla hasn't learned? Go ahead and put it in the chat. Boundaries-- Boundaries people pleasing. I start other people's needs and her own. And that it is OK to say no to a friend. Absolutely. Oh, you guys are so smart. This is great. This is great. Yes. So that sets us squarely up for our next skill, which is speaking up. Sometimes we want to go along to get along and just get through whatever the situation is. Sometimes out of caring will do what a friend wants, but sometimes we really do need to speak up and to say no or to say, I don't like this or this is what I want. This is a very important skill. The basic example of this is assertiveness. Many of you have probably used this formula, I feel, when you, please. So in the please part, you ask for what you want them to do. So please don't be a jerk is not a good ask. So please could you move your chair over that works. Because it's a concrete positive action rather than a stop or don't. Now, one caveat I would give to the skill of assertiveness, is that you only want to do it with people who care about your feelings. Like, why would you be sharing with somebody who doesn't? Because sometimes I've seen these gentle souls, and they'll go up to the kid and say, that hurt my feelings. And the other kid is like, good. That's what I was trying to do. So use your judgement about who you're going to be assertive with. An important aspect of the skill of speaking up is saying no. This is another one where I brainstorm with kids about how to say it. What are the ways that we can say no? No, thanks. I'm not comfortable doing that. My mum would be so mad if I did that. That's OK. Throw your mum under the bus. She doesn't care if it's getting you out of a difficult situation. I don't want to do that. Let's do something else instead. So we're turning your no into a yes, but it's a yes that you feel comfortable with. I don't like that idea. I really don't want to do that. So an important thing for kids to understand is that you may have to say no more than once. And sometimes I'll have kids with a cheat sheet of these different ways of saying no that we came up with, and I'll be the other kid with roleplay and say, oh, please, come on, please, can you do that? No, thank you. Oh, come on, I really want to. Everybody else does that. I'm not comfortable doing that. Or I'll be your best friend if you do that. My mum would be so mad if I did that. So give the kids practise saying this so that they can use it in the real time when they need it. Another example that's really important to understand with saying no is that a lot of times kids feel guilty or disempowered to say no. But if you think about it, a reluctant yes is like saying to a friend, I'll do what you want, but then I'm going to hold it against you forever. Like this is a terrible bargain for both people. So a thoughtful no can actually save your friendship because resentment is poison in any relationship. So we really want to guard against that. No is not a bad thing. No can save your friendship. That's a good flip that you can do sometimes for kids who are reluctant to do that. A lot of times kids want to confront a friend and tell them all the terrible things they did and not a good idea. That's unlikely to go well. Maybe you've had this-- I had a kid on the who was riding the bus with her close friend, and then she felt deeply wounded because her friend was sitting with someone else. So she decided to write the friend a long letter of every bad thing the friend had ever done, and she gave this letter to the friend and told her she was being a bully. Well, the friend promptly accused her of bullying, but this wasn't bullying on either side. But we want to-- it's OK to confront a friend and to bring up a problem, because we don't want it stewing and festering and building up resentment. But we want to do it with kind words, because the goal is not to prove I'm right and you're wrong. The goal is to continue the friendship, to make the friendship stronger. So no name calling. Keep the problem between the two of you. We see this in upper elementary and middle school and high school, where two friends will have a problem, and then they each tell four friends who take sides, and those people tell even more friends. And then this tiny little conflict has turned into a big kerfuffle with everybody. Another good thing to keep in mind is to give yourself time. You don't necessarily have to say something in the moment. Usually, it's better not to if you're really heated. So give yourself time to cool off and think about how you want to respond to the problem. And if you're going to bring up an issue with a friend, guess what? You're going to have to listen to. I'm sure the friend has their perspective on what happened, and it doesn't have the perspective of you're an angel and they're terrible. They had their own reasons for what was going on. So these are two questions that kids can ask themselves before speaking to a friend about a problem. The first question is, what is the response you hope for? Like that's got to be our anchor. How do you want the other person to respond? Really picture that and figure out what that is. Because if you don't know what you're aiming for, you're not going to get there. And then once we know what is the response you hope for, then we can ask ourselves what communication is most likely to get that response? So we're slowing it down. We're thinking things through, and the kids are more likely to do a productive way of bringing up an issue. Another aspect of the skill of speaking up is being able to handle teasing. Teasing is part of life. And there was one study where the researchers went into a kindergarten classroom at the beginning of the school year, and at the end of the school year. And at the beginning of the year, they recorded who got picked on by whom. At the beginning of the year, pretty much every kid was teased about the same amount. By the end of the school year, it was only a few kids who were consistently picked on, and it was the ones who had the biggest emotional reactions. So that's what we need to be thinking about, kids have to be able to handle teasing. So we have to give them a way not to feel wounded by dumb comments from whoever. And sometimes it's useful to talk about responses to teasing. Sometimes I'll say to kids, do you remember when you were little and you had a noisy toy and you would press the button and it would say, moo! And you would think, oh, that's fun? You don't want to be a noisy toy for the teaser. If you have a big reaction, it's entertaining for the teaser. So what can you do instead? One simple but really powerful response is to just say, OK. I had a client once who was on the school bus with this other kid who was not so nice, and one day this other kid said to my client, everybody hates you. You have no friends at all. Oh, my gosh, what a mean thing to say. But fortunately, my client was ready. And he said in his most bored tone of voice, OK. What a conversation ender, like the other kid was like why are you saying that? And fortunately, there was another kid on the bus who said, that's not true. So yay for the upstanders. So just a plain board can be useful. So what? Is a good one. You can say it as many times as you need to. So what? So what? Another thing they might try is to pretend as a compliment. Thanks or thanks for noticing. One of my kids has my skin, which is just fluorescent white. And I tend to be covered. But she was at school once and she was wearing shorts, and our skin is pale enough that strangers comment on it. So some girl said to her, oh my gosh, you're so pale. And my daughter gave her a big toothy grin and said thanks, and kept moving. So another response is to say, tell me when you get to the funny part. Or this was one that my kids used when they were younger, I know what's true, so I won't listen to you. Sometimes I'll tell kids if somebody says one mean thing to you, say, ha. If they say two mean things, say, ha ha. What should you say if they say three mean things? ha ha ha. What if they say nine mean things? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. It's silly. It's pointless, but it underscores that the teasing is pointless also. With some gentle souls, they need practise with this. So I'll do role play with what I call nonsense word insults. So I might-- I'll give the kid the cheat sheet of all of these different responses to teasing that we came up with. They might have circled the ones that they liked, that feel good to them, and then I will be the teaser. But I don't use real things because with these very sensitive kids, they just can't take it. So I might say, you have grimsey muffs or you always wiggle your traps or you're such a knif knaf. And again, it's underscoring that the teasing is meaningless. If you don't respect that person's opinion, what do you care if they say it? But we have to arm them with things to say, things to do other than feeling overwhelmed and wounded. Now, I want to bring up a really important topic, which is the difference between bullying and ordinary meanness. Researchers have a very specific definition of bullying, and that's deliberate meanness targeting a specific person, usually repeatedly over time, although sometimes just one especially horrible action can count. And this is the most important element. There is a power difference between the kid doing the meanness and the kid getting targeted. If there's no power difference, it's not bullying. It's just a conflict. If there is a power difference, then it is bullying. And kids need adults to step in because the power difference is what makes it difficult or impossible for them to handle the situation on their own. So I did a TEDx Talk about this. You can find it online. The title was, Is It Bullying Versus Ordinary Meanness? The good news is it was picked as an editor's choice by TED central, and it's got over a million views. The bad news is they changed the title to the most unappealing title ever, which is Conflict Resolution on the Playground. Yuck! Anyway. But the point of the book-- of the talk is that this distinction matters if we call everything bullying. Then we trivialise the serious cases of peer abuse. It also gives children the message, you're fragile. You can't handle it if anyone is even slightly mean to you. So that's not empowering to kids. Another problem is it creates a false division between the good kids and the bad kids. If you look at the playground research, the observational research, all the kids are doing less than kind things. Because their empathy isn't fully developed and they're experimenting with social power and they're just trying to figure things out. So we don't want to slap a label on a kid and say, well, that one's doomed. So much for them. And then I think another thing that's really important is when there's too much pushing of the B word, it can undermine children's relationship repair skills. Every relationship is going to hit rough spots. That's just human nature. People are annoying. They don't always do exactly what I want. And if we want to have strong and caring relationships, we have to be able to communicate and get past those rough spots and maybe even come to understand each other better. I had-- the kids ask Dr. Friendtastic podcast. Cutest little guy, a six-year-old sent in a question about how do I never have conflict with my friend? And my answer was that there's only one way for you to never have conflict with your friend, and that is you and your friend have to think and feel exactly the same at every single second. But wait, then you couldn't be friends because you'd be the same person. Most of us wander through life thinking pretty much everybody thinks and feels the same way I do. And conflict is actually our opportunity to learn, oh, they see things very differently. So the trick is to keep the conflict bearable. So do we have any questions about this fourth skill of speaking up? We do. We have a-- one is how do we encourage children to advocate for themselves while helping them understand that some situations require adult protection? So that is hard because often kids will tell parents, oh, don't get involved, you'll make it worse. And what the research says is that's true. So if we come in guns blazing to protect our little darling, that's not going to be helpful. So we have to take a measured approach. But sometimes we also have to say, this is too much. This is no kid should have to deal with what you're dealing with. You've tried this. You've tried that. Now it's time for mum or dad or the therapist to step in. And they may wail and gnash their teeth. But if it's a case of real bullying, a part of them is also going to be grateful. As much as we can, we want to coach from the sidelines. So if it's a conflict or if you're not sure what's going on, use role play. Use good questions to help kids think through. What could they do? How is the other kid likely to respond? We can also do strategies outages like you are less of a target for cyberbullying if you are standing near a friend or standing near an adult. So sometimes that can be a low key way of making themselves less of a target. Sometimes we just need more adult supervision, and it may be helpful to reach out to the school and say, hey, this is what's going on. Can you keep an eye on things? Can we get some extra adult presence on this? Sometimes it can be useful to have allies. Often there are kids at school who are socially powerful, but also very kind, and they may be able to intervene in a positive way, in a way that sometimes adults can't. But there also has to be lines that we don't let kids cross. So sometimes the school really does need to say to a kid, hey, that's crossing a line. So there's been research about these anti-bullying campaigns. And what they find is that kids will look that at the big sign that says stop bullying now. And they'll think, those mean kids should stop that, and they don't see it as personally relevant. I have a questionnaire that I used to be a guidance counsellor at one point at an elementary school. And we-- in the United States, we have this anti-bullying month. I don't even remember what it is, but that's not a good approach. And if you say the B word in a classroom full of kids, what happens is they all raise their hand and they've all got an example of, oh, when I was in first grade, this kid, he whatever he did. And they don't see any of it as personally relevant. So what I did was I made up a questionnaire about ordinary meanness. And I can share it with this organisation. So we can send it out afterwards if you want. But it had a bunch of questions that kids were likely to say yes to because most of them had done it. I'm sure I did it as a kid. And I headed out to the kids and I said, don't put your name on this. This is for your eyes only. And then they went through the questionnaires and it was like, I forget it always, sometimes never or something like that. And there were things like, have you ever complained about having to work with someone? Or have you ever continued to tease someone about something even after they've asked you to stop? So things like that are pretty typical. And then afterwards, I talked with the kids. I said, don't tell me what you said, but how did it feel to fill out this questionnaire? And some kids said, they were surprised and some kids felt guilty and some kids felt relieved. And then I said, what I want you to do now is to think of a time when you made a less than choice. Don't tell me what it is, but when you've got something in mind, raise your hand. And then I had to do a little bit of I'm waiting because everybody has somewhere, somehow made a choice that is less than. So bring it to mind. You don't have to tell me. But raise your hand when you've thought of something. And then I said, I want you to make a promise to yourself that the next time you're in that situation, you'll do the kind thing. So our goal with this is not to bring down the bad kids because they're all children. Our goal is to help kids to move forward in kinder ways. So let's do our fifth skill. This is Jorge's challenge. So he's in the garden with mum. And mum says it's a beautiful day out. Why don't you invite someone over? And Jorge says, no, Billy has a game today, and Jesse has to do something with his family. And then in the second square, mum says, I'll invite someone else. How about Ethan? He's just down the street. And you guys have been buddies since first grade. And the kid says, no way. When we all played basketball at aftercare last week, he never passed the ball. So what is it that Jorge needs to learn? Oh, by the way, this was from an actual client of mine. Except it wasn't last week at aftercare. It was like two years ago at travel basketball. He never passed the ball. So what is it that Jorge needs to learn? First response says not holding a grudge. Forgiveness. Absolutely. Letting go of something that's made you-- that made you angry. Yes, exactly. That's hard. So the fifth skill is letting go. And this is about not sweating the small stuff and opening our hearts to forgiveness. But there are other-- this slide is doing something strange there. So some kids are very by the rules kids. And they believe in what is right with a capital R and try to make sure everybody else does that. So we have to talk to kids to help them manage the urge to correct. And sometimes it's about helping them to recognise it's not my job to correct them. They'll be mad at me if I correct them. And another thing you could say is that most kids have their parents telling them what to do, and their teachers and their coaches and their babysitters and their grandparents and so many people telling them what to do. So they really don't like it when another kid tells them what to do. So don't be the rule police. That's not going to win any points with kids. So this can be hard to learn. I was about 30 when one time-- and I was out for lunch with this senior psychologist and he was talking about this one study, and he was talking about the statistics that they used. And I don't do that stuff anymore. And haven't in a long time. But I've always had just a good feel for numbers. And so I'm listening to him. And he was completely wrong in what he said. Absolutely, completely wrong. And all I said was, mmmh, And I remember thinking, damn, Eileen, you've grown up. Because not that much earlier than their. I would have felt the need to explain to him that why he was wrong about the statistics, but I let him be wrong because he was not in charge of the study. Nobody was going to even need a band-aid if he spent the rest of his life being wrong about the study. I did go home and explain to my husband why he was wrong. But we do what we can. So tattling is another example of this skill of letting go or not tattling rather. And sometimes we can give kids ideas about, should I tell? Will someone get hurt? Will something get broken? Does someone need help? And here's the big one, have I tried two ways to solve it myself? If the answer to all of those is no, let it go. Sometimes kids, well, and adults who are prone to anger tend to assume that the other person did it out of deliberate meanness. The maybe game is something that can soften this assumption, and I've used this with individual kids and also as a group activity in schools. So we take a kid crime. Let's say Jeffrey took your pencil. Now, maybe Jeffrey did this out of deliberate meanness because he wanted you to suffer, but probably not. What are some other reasons why Jeffrey might have taken your pencil? Well, maybe he just picked it up without even realising it. Maybe he was just borrowing it for a moment. Maybe he thought it was his pencil. So when we can come up with lots of maybes, it makes the deliberate meanness explanation seem less likely. Or another one. Let's say you bumped into someone and dropped all of your books. Now, maybe that other kid did it on purpose because he wanted you to suffer. Or maybe he didn't see you. Maybe it was an accident. Or here's one that the kids definitely will not come up with. Maybe you bumped into him. Come up with a maybes, and it can soften the anger. And of course, we want to think about forgiveness. This is really hard. There's that righteous indignation gets us all riled. And in some ways, it feels good, but it hurts us more than others. And I'm sure that you've heard the saying that holding on to grudges is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to get sick. We are the ones who get hurt by it. So sometimes I find it useful to talk about forgiveness guidelines. If it only happened once and it's never likely to happen again, let it go. If your friend didn't do it on purpose, let it go. If it wasn't that bad, let it go. If your friend is very sorry, let it go. If it happened more than a month ago, definitely, let it go. So years ago, dear Abby had a column and she came up with this phrase that will blow the mind of kids and that is the person who is least wrong should apologise first. Why? So see if kids can come up with the explanation. And first they argue and say, well, they shouldn't because the person who did the bigger thing should do that. No, the person who is least wrong should apologise first. Why is that? And there are a lot of reasons. One-- but the main one is that it's easier. If you've done the less bad thing, then it's easier for you to apologise. Maybe the other person will apologise back. Or maybe not. Doesn't matter. Either way, it's a step towards getting past that rough spot and you can just know in your head, hey, the fact that I'm apologising means I am less wrong. So any questions about the skill of letting go? I have one, meanwhile, and there are some kids that are especially highly sensitive. So any guidance on how to support these kids with this specific skill? So these are the kids that absolutely need this the most. The idea of you don't have to collect grievances like beads on a string. And that's a metaphor. In my practise, I like to draw pictures for kids as much as possible, because I just think that it sticks in their brain better than all of our adult talking. So sometimes I'll draw a picture of beads on a string and say don't want to do this. Because think of all the weight of all those resentments that you're going to carry over a lifetime. And I've definitely had kids who can go well, when I was in kindergarten, this kid did this. And then in first grade, three kids did that. Let it go. That's definitely more than a month ago. And it hurts you to hold on to that. So each of these strategies, like the baby game, that's really about empathy for the other person. So the research on prosocial behaviour or kindness is very interesting because what it shows is that there are several ingredients. And the first ingredient is that kids need to be able to manage their own distress. This came from studies where they're mean, but they would bring the kid into the lab and the researcher would hold a toy that was booby trapped. And they say, this is my favourite toy ever, and would you like to hold it? And then as soon as the kid held it, it would fall apart. And then they looked to see how did the kids react. The kids with the biggest emotional reaction were not able to express concern for the researcher who just lost their favourite toy. And then before the kids, they sent the kids home. They always fix the toy. Oh, it's fixed now. It's good. So they sent them off not unhappy. And this is a typical experience for kids. So some people say, oh, how could you do that to children? But they kind of live through it all the time. But anyway, so that first ingredient of kindness is they have to be able to manage their own distress. The second ingredient is that they need to be able to understand the other person's perspective. So when they're very sensitive, again, they're just focusing on I feel bad in this moment, but can they hold the other thing too, that oh, I see how that person is reacting reacting. And then the third one is that they view themselves as helpers, they view themselves as someone who can pitch in or make things better, whether it's by apologising or trying to pick up the pieces or whatever it is. But none of the other stuff is going to work if the kid can't regulate themselves. So we've talked about five important friendship skills, reaching out, stepping back, blending in, speaking up, and letting go. Notice that several of these are opposites. That's because getting along with others is never about just doing one thing. It's about flexibly adjusting our behaviour to fit the situation, to fit our goals, to fit whatever is happening at the moment and what we want to happen. What underlies all five of these skills is empathy. The ability to understand and genuinely care about somebody else's feelings. This is what fuels the development of friendship from those love the one you're with friendships of the toddler years, to the more intimate and lasting friendships of the teen years. Empathy helps us to reach out in kind ways. It helps us to see the effect of our actions on others, so that we can step back when we need to. It helps us blend in to cooperate and share the fun of a group. It helps us to speak up with respect rather than cruelty, and it helps us to let go of small problems and forgive. Learning friendship skills is a lifetime project. We adults in new situations and new relationships are still learning about getting along. And the number one reaction that I get to all of my stuff that I do for kids is, oh my goodness, this applies to adults. Yes. It's not like we learn all of it at age nine and then we're done. We're continuing to learn and it takes time. So kids are not going to instantly be perfect friends. They're going to stumble. They're going to mess up and hopefully, pick themselves up, dust themselves off, and try again. That's how learning works. So thank you very much. I'm going to share some resources with you. If you go to my website, those are most of my books. The two that are most relevant for this topic are Growing Friendships, which we saw the cartoons from that's a kid's guide to making and keeping friends for ages six to 12. And then there's a SQL to that called Growing Feelings, which is a kid's guide to dealing with emotions about friends and other kids. So when kids don't usually, or none of us really feel emotions in general, we usually feel it in the context of our relationships. So that's a deep dive into that. And then there, Moody Moody Cars is a book for the little ones four to eight. I partnered with this guy who does these gorgeous photos of vintage cars, and to me, they look like they have feelings. So the text goes freewheeling, full of feeling, travelling near and far. Honk if you see me, I'm a Moody, Moody Car, so it's very fun. And then there are a bunch of books for parents as well. If you go on my website, there are a lot of free and low cost resources for parents or kids articles, books, webinars, two minute videos, also a newsletter that you're welcome to sign up for. And I have to tell you about the biggest joy of my work life, which is my podcast, which is called Kids Ask Dr. Friendtastic. It's available on all the main podcast apps. Or you can go to the website. It's free and it's five minutes. It comes out every week, and every episode features an audio recording of a question from a kid about friendship. And then I try to say something practical, thought provoking, and hopefully research based. So there are a lot of fun to look at. If you know any kids in kindergarten through eighth grade who would like to submit a question, especially boys, I'm always looking for boys. You can go there. It's actually DrFriendtastic.com back slash submit to submit a question. But I would love. We've had a few kids from the UK, but I always get a kick out of people coming from different places. So we've gotten UK, we've got Netherlands, we had Cyprus, and maybe a couple of other places, but it's fun. So I was telling Dahlia before this session that I have a good private practise that keeps the lights on, but I lose money on all the other stuff that I do. But I do it anyway because when we think about the epidemic of loneliness among adults and the mental health crisis among teens, and the painful divisiveness in our country and our world, I really believe that it has never been more urgent to help kids learn to build strong and caring relationships. So join me in that and thank you for all the work that you do. I'm going to stop share, but I'm happy to answer questions. We've got a little bit more time. Thank you. Thank you Eileen so much. I think that was really-- lots of things interesting, but also fun. I think it was very, very engaging to listen to you. Everyone might agree. Very dynamic and lovely to hear you. And we had a number of questions coming from the talk. So I thought maybe there are a few that might address different things that are the ones that we already covered. But there was a question about any suggestions for children who have a disability, which makes them reaching out face particularly daunting, such as a speech impediment, for example. Yes. I mean, there are so many different things that could be happening to make it difficult for kids to interact. And some disabilities are invisible. Some are very obvious from the second that you interact with them. Some you can see across the room. So I did a presentation recently for a group where the kids were amputees. I mean that's tricky. And the question is to talk with the child about how they want to handle this. Kids don't have filters, so they tend to ask blunt questions. With a stammering, you might find the kids imitating it, which could be very hurtful for the child who is stuttering. So the question is, how do you want to handle it? And there's no one right answer. There's a range of possibilities for-- in some cases, you'll want to explain to if it's a closer friend, you'll want to explain what's going on. In some cases, you may want to have just a really short line about how you handle it to just cut the conversation down. Sometimes you want to have a little bit more aggressive thing to do. The nuclear one that I tell kids be mindful and where you're going to use this, don't use it on everything is what I call social control. So this doesn't have to be just for a disability. But sometimes, especially around those middle school girls, they can, oh my gosh, it'll curl your hair. The things that they say. So what I recommend is for kids to say in a loud, carrying voice, that was a mean thing to say. And then what happens? Everybody turns and looks at the other kid, and then our kid has to walk away. So even the kids who-- the girls who often do mean things, don't like to think of themselves as mean. And there's not a single bad word there. You're just calling them on it and disengaging. And I will drill kids on that. So go up to the bear over there and tell them in a loud, caring voice that was a mean thing to say and then walk away. Again, that's the nuclear one. Sometimes in a classroom it can be useful to have the kid, or maybe the kid and the parent do a presentation about whatever the situation is. I've had kids do this with autism and it can be really good, but stuttering is another possibility. Also, with a friend, it can be useful to tell them what to do. Tell them how to respond, what is helpful, what is not helpful. So at a neutral time, the kid might explain to the friend, if I'm stuttering, please just be patient. No, don't. You don't have to talk over me. I'll get there. The best thing you can do to help me is to just be patient. Sometimes we can get friends to speak up for the other kid. That can be really useful, motivate those upstanders to call it out. Because it's often going to happen when adults aren't around. That's when the meanness really happens. Depending on what the situation is, I've had kids look down their nose and say, your ignorance is showing and then walk away. So I mean, you gotta-- no bad words, no name calling, no yelling, because that makes you it too interesting for them. But let's arm the kid with something to say. A range of possibilities of something to say. Thank you, thank you. That's a very, very helpful advice and ideas. Very interesting. There are some other questions. I think we have time for two or three more. A question related to parents. How do you work with parents who are themselves hesitant or less able to initiate and blend in? I see more parents on devices and less inclined to encourage these activities, because they don't do this themselves. Exactly like our devices were designed to connect us, but they can also be a great way to avoid connection as well. So in my practise, I work-- sometimes, I work just with parents. If I work with the kids, I'm working closely with the parents as well. Parents often feel very helpless when their kids are struggling socially. But we just went through 8 million things that there are a lot of things that parents can do to support children's social skills. And sometimes it's exposure therapy for the parents to-- you got to show the way, like, oh, do I have to? Yes. So let's talk about some ways that are comfortable for you to do it. There's research that when parents are on their devices a lot, they tend to be harsher parents. Isn't that interesting? So this was a study or one study. They spied on adults and kids in a fast food restaurant. And when the parents were on their devices, or the parents are caretaker, whoever it was, where on the devices the kid acted-- the kids acted up more, and the parents tended to respond more harshly. So we want to be really careful to lead by example of what we want with the devices. And if you're always on your device, it's going to be really hard for you to put your foot down about when the kid can be on it. So let's be mindful and think about sometimes when we're definitely going to be off devices. Mealtimes, family activities are really good one. And it's tempting, because, oh, I don't want to miss anything. And oh, they might have-- oh, I have to for my work, whatever. It's the pull is there. So we have to be really thoughtful and intentional about when we're going to be off. So for the parent who is struggling socially as well, I'll sometimes talk about it and say, in some ways this is an advantage. There are other parents who find it very easy to socialise, but you are able to empathise with your child's struggles. So that's great. You have that deep understanding. We also know from research that children learn best from models who struggle and then do it. So I would talk aloud to your child and say, I'm nervous. It's still hard for me to call up another parent or to text another parent, but I'm going to do it anyway. Great modelling, great learning for your kid. You can offer the empathy and work through it with them as well. You can have that family game night even if it's not something that you've done a lot. We'll strategize about what feels doable. If not a family game night, can you make plans to meet at the playground like baby steps? Can you just greet the other parents when it's pickup time or go to the PTO meeting and say hi to two people? So there's a lot we can do. And struggling yourself is not necessarily a disadvantage. Thank you. Lovely to hear you. And advice on modelling I think it's very, very, very relevant. So thank you. I think we have time for one more question at least. I will read one of the last one. It's about gender differences. One of the delegates says, I often see a gender difference, typically, boys being less emotionally intelligent we use expressive language and using physical strategies as compared their females. So the question is, how can we switch boys onto a socially kinder approach and work to change the discourse that is still there about boys are tough? For example. So this is the general assumption. But there's been some very interesting research that shows that boys actually have particular strengths in their friendships. And of course, whenever we talk about boys versus girls, there's a lot of overlap. The distributions have heavy overlap in some boys are more like this. Some girls are more like that. But on average, boys tend to interact in bigger groups, whereas girls are more likely to have the smaller groups or more intimate friendships. Girls also have higher expectations of their friends, which can lead to a lot of hurt feelings and conflicts and so forth. Boys, this one researchers is talking about, get over things faster. Like keep the game going. And so that's a particular skill. So I don't think we want to turn boys into girls. We don't have to. One of the best things that parents can do in general about supporting children's friendships is to talk about feelings as they come up in life, in a book, in a movie, and don't make it too painful. So oftentimes, boys and men avoid emotional conversations because it's like, oh, it's going to be long and it's going to be painful. So we can do it with a lighter touch. We want kids to have the emotional vocabulary, to be able to name feelings. So if you're just talking about it, if you're reflecting your kid's feelings, which just means describe the feelings that you see. The basic formula that I give to parents is you're feeling blank because blank. it's hard for you when, it bothers you when, you wish. Notice that all of those have the word you in it, and they don't have the word I. We want the focus to be on you the kid, not I the parent. And you want to keep reflecting until you see the softening in their face or in their body. So they're not going to say, why, yes, mother, what an insightful observation. But you might get a grunt of acknowledgment. Good enough. And we don't move on to problem solving until we see that softening. So we can do the reflection. Research shows that when parents talk more about feelings, kids are better able to imagine other people's perspective, which is the foundation of everything. So we don't have to worry about turning boys into girls. We can for all children, just talk about feelings in a non painful way as they come up. We can acknowledge their feelings. The foundation of empathy is also an ability to understand and regulate our own emotions. So this is doing the work. It doesn't have to look like some made for TV movie where we sit there and talk about feelings. We can do it in a way that fits your kid. Another thing that can be useful is in my practise, I spend a lot of time with doing LEGOs, and we're both like looking down and no eye contact whatsoever. But we're talking about important things. So be flexible in what talking about feelings looks like for your particular child. With my teenagers, if they're crabby, I say, let's go for a walk. There's this Hill near my office. So it gets them panting and it gets the fight out of them. And pretty soon, they're just opening up a little bit. Thank you, thank you. I will for sure try the LEGO one and see how it works. Thank you, Eileen. I think lots of comments in the chat thanking you, sharing their thoughts, appreciating the time and the practical advices. So yeah, thank you one more time. Thank you everyone for joining us today. We will be sharing the recording and the slides with you in a couple with everyone in a couple of days. Thank you one more time for all your support. And I hope we can continue working together in the future. I'd love that. Thank you for all the work that you do. Thank you everyone and take care. See you next time. [AUDIO LOGO]