We are the Association for Child and Adolescent Mental Health, or ACAMH, for short. And this is ACAMH Learn. [MUSIC PLAYING] Seeking autonomy and social connection, risk taking, and identity making, the brain in adolescence is unique. It's primed to absorb and learn from the environment. And that means that the teenage years are a chance to improve or shift a young person's trajectory. This new series of Inside the Teen Brain explores how neuroscience can inform our understanding of young people's home, school, and life experience. In conversation with leading professionals, we answer three big questions, what's the background? So what? And now what? I'm Dr. Jane Gilmour, and this episode is called "Education, Leveraging the Power of the Teenage Brain." Well, now, our first big question asks, what's the background? Live and learn, they say, and it's true for all of us, but it has particular resonance for teenagers. Their brains are highly engaged to learn about every aspect of their world. Although with gateway exams and adolescence, academic learning often takes centre stage. There are, of course, many influences in school outcome and attainment-- poverty, availability of materials, teaching ratios, and so on. But two elements have special relevance for the sensitive teenage brain, the social and emotional environment. Strong data from Blakemore, Zimmerman, and many others show that adolescents zero in on emotional in a way that they never have before, or they never have before or ever will again. So we can hypothesise that both the formal learning environment and the hidden curriculum, expectations, and so on, hold the key to a good outcome in adolescence. It sits well with Vygotsky's principles of social learning, too. So perhaps it's unsurprising that Durlak's influential meta analysis shows that programmes aimed at improving social and emotional functioning predict an 11-point increase in academic achievement, a moderate effect size. The student-teacher relationship is another key theme here. Numerous studies, including [? Elms'/Landers' ?] impressive review, show a positive relationship is associated with better student well-being, motivation, engagement, self-control, and attainment. Emerging evidence suggests it might also be a precursor to teachers using more creative learning techniques, which would improve student outcome yet further. A final important strand to the literature is peer culture. We know that teenagers' brains are driven to integrate with peers, and longitudinal data show that the values in a given group will predict their future attainment and well-being. So where does that leave us? Well, knowledge is power, yes, but the application of knowledge is our next step. Here, we need an educationalist to inspire us with our daily practise and help us answer the next big question. Well, I'm delighted to welcome Takako Yeung, an educational leader of more than 20 years' experience. She offers transformational systemic change in education centres here in the UK and internationally. Her ethos aims to support young people's ambition and their mental health, so she's perfectly placed to help us. Hello, and welcome, Takako. Hello. I'm delighted to be here. Looking forward to our conversation. Thank you. Can you help us with our homework? I'll do my best. OK. Well, let's just start. I touched on it in your introduction, but can you tell me a little bit more about your teaching practise ethos? Yeah. I mean, it was great to try to reflect on this because we often don't get the opportunity to do that. And I went back to my early career and in fact, thinking about myself as a student. And I remember that I wanted to transform the world. That was my aim when I was 18 years old. And I found myself in education, and now, I can see that this is my way of trying to do that. So in terms of my teaching practise and ethos, it's all about trying to harness the transformative power of education. And for me, the way to do that is by really trying to support every individual child that I have in front of me. So my practise is around how can I show this young person in front of me how much I value them, how much I respect them, how much I believe in them? Yeah, I think that, in a nutshell, is what I'm all about. And that's very interesting. So you're individualising your relationship with each child and talking about what their value is so that they can go out and change the world, too. I mean, that's a very graspable idea, isn't it, about thinking about how you relate to each individual child. Yeah, I think it's the power of knowing that individual. And I think for a lot of young people, sometimes they don't necessarily feel seen or known or understood. And so I just feel like it's my job to try to understand them a little bit more and to help them as well, as they grapple with the kind of person they want to be. That's often what teenagers are doing, or certainly, that's my experience of teenagers. They're figuring out the kind of human being they want to be. And I feel like trying to support them in that. So, I mean, and so getting inside the dialogue with which each young person, I mean, we know from the data that these strong student-teacher relationships do impact motivation, attainment, and so many more things. How do you go about doing that? So I walk into the room. I'm Takako, I have a teenager in front of me. How am I going to watch you form that relationship? What happens? Well, I think it's about trying to create that environment where everyone is welcome and everyone is kind of respected. So, you walk into my classroom, whatever mood you might be in, whether you're stressed or you're running late, or whatever it might be, I think for me-- and this and this is where I have to keep on reminding myself each lesson, how can I really embrace the individual coming into the room? Because I might have my own things going on. In fact, I often will, obviously, as a human being. But my role is to park that and to try to really focus on that individual and always, yeah, it's about embracing and always believing the best in them. And that comes through the interactions. So it is about asking how they are, and it's those little things, that, obviously, we don't spend the whole lesson talking about what they did at the weekend or how they're feeling, but even just kind of acknowledging that there's life outside of my classroom and that they are balancing multiple priorities. Me acknowledging that with them, I think, often, is really helpful. So I think for the students in my classroom, they know that I don't just care about them in terms of-- I teach politics, so I don't just care about them in terms of the work that they do for me in politics. Actually, I'm thinking about them as a whole person. So yeah, those interactions. And that exchange, I care about you seem to invite. So will you care about what I think of your educational experience? It's starting to form a mutual exchange, if you like. And of course, because you're dealing with teenagers, their world outside of the classroom is very important too. And as you're saying, you can't talk about it all the time, but you can meet them where they are, and you can, perhaps, pitch according to how you're sensing the degree to reception that they may have, for example. Can you think of a case that might not have been straightforward? Because these are always the best ones to learn from, aren't they, and perhaps, what you learned from it or how you shifted your strategy? In terms of building that relationship with students. Yes, I can think of a number of them. So I remember a number of years ago now, with one student where it was challenging for me, in particular, because they were presenting or behaving in ways in the classroom that weren't meeting my expectations. And so I was finding myself getting frustrated, and that, inevitably, had an impact on things like my tone of voice or how I was talking to them, how I was responding to them. And obviously, when I'm responding in that way, it's very difficult to break that cycle. And so I had to really reframe everything in my mind, basically. So it's, again, thinking about, OK, so the behaviour is manifesting in this way. Somebody is turning up late to my lessons, which is an absolute no-no for me-- I'm a real stickler for punctuality-- or someone doesn't seem to be putting enough effort into their homework, doesn't seem to care about how they're doing, that might be how the behaviour is presenting. For me, I had to think there's got to be something beyond that. If I really believe in the potential of this young person, how can I rack my brains to figure out how to get in? How do I get in with this person? So with that student, there were a number of occasions where I didn't get it right, where, definitely, in the classroom, I didn't raise my voice, but I might have been sharper, shall we say, in some of the comments or interactions? And actually, what I had to do or what I decided to do was, outside of the classroom. So find a time when my emotions aren't heightened, their emotions aren't heightened. Let's just have a chat. It doesn't feel like you're enjoying politics as much as I really want you to. And I'm finding it quite challenging as well. So how can we resolve this? What is it that we need to do? And that often then is an opportunity. Again, it doesn't necessarily transform with one that conversation, but it's the starting point to try to understand what might be going on. And taking the time to understand them, I think, just really helped in that situation. But what I'm hearing is some therapeutic techniques, essentially. So I think therapists among us will recognise a lot of what you were doing there. So the behaviour, what's underneath the behaviour, what's it communicating, and having the curiosity and the cognitive space to say this is challenging to me in the moment. And also, I know it's conveying something else about how that student is feeling. But the other thing that I really liked about your description there is that you went outside of the classroom. You went outside of the trigger point. We have another episode, interestingly, talking about young offenders. Now, I'm not putting your pupils in the same category, but with young offenders and the way that one can build relationships outside of the hotspots where conflict can happen and moving, let's say in this instance, moving to a sports, a gym setting, and it allows relationships to build in a different way. And that's what you're describing there. When emotions have settled, we're not in the classroom. We're not where both of us, perhaps, will be feeling a higher emotion. And you're allowing that young person to start to think about and get in touch with what their behaviour is conveying. There's really, I mean, a great practical set of steps. Did it improve? Did things connect a bit? Yeah, it did. And I think what they also really appreciated was me being quite honest about how their behaviour, how I was viewing it. So from my perspective, this is what it looks like. Tell me if my interpretation is correct or not. Because it looks like you don't care or you're not showing me or the class respect by turning up late. Have I got that wrong? Is that the case? And I think they just appreciate being spoken to with that degree of yeah, obviously, we're not peers, but in terms of that respect, of I might have got this wrong. So please tell me. I mean, and we know. I mean, I know that you're not thinking about it from necessarily a neuroscience point of view. You're thinking about it as an educationalist. But we know from a neuroscience point of view, if we can give teenagers the consultative role, tell me, have I got it right? What do I need to do to help you? It immediately changes their capacity to engage and is more likely to change behaviour. So that is a bull's eye in terms of the neuroscience, which is translating into the classroom. And I'm interested in hearing you talk about appropriate expectations. And we know that it's actually very important to have an appropriately high expectation for a child. And obviously, they have to be individualised and appropriate to the child's capacity and so on. But an appropriately high expectation improves outcome. How do you hold the balance between putting pressure on students who, for example, might have a tendency towards perfectionism, which we know is somewhat on the rise with young girls, in particular? How can you hold that balance? So I think it's about talking to them about why those high expectations are in place and really supporting them to understand that the high expectation doesn't mean that I only respect you or care about you or value you because of the grade that you get right. The high expectations are there because I know you're a brilliant person. I want you to have all of the choices and options available to you. Let's work together to help you achieve that. So it's very much about making sure that they understand it's not just about grades. That's not the intention of those high expectations. And then I think in terms of the perfectionism, I'm perhaps, fortunate in the sense of that is one of my own tendencies. And that's something that I've really been working on, as I've got older and as my career has developed. So I've found it really valuable to actually talk to students about that. Again, not necessarily inside the classroom, but if I know-- and again, I can think of examples, as you've mentioned, in particular, I've had some girls that I've taught where there has been that real perfectionism and therefore, lots of stress, not enough sleep, working too hard. When I can see that that's happening, again, it's outside of the classroom where I sit down with them and just talk to them about what's going on. Why are they so worried, what might be other ways that they can manage their own expectations of themselves and to share my own experience as well. And I think that sharing a little bit of my own experience, they find quite comforting, so they know that I understand where they're coming from. And because they know I have such high expectations of myself, they don't think that it's a cop out when I say can take a break, because they know that I'm trying to do that as well. And I'm still holding up all the expectations that I have of myself. So yeah. But that's interesting because, again, it's somehow playing-- I don't mean playing as in a manipulative way. I mean, using and leveraging the idea of teenagers wanting respect, wanting to matter in the adult world. So a teacher saying, look, within the bounds, as you're saying of professionalism, you're saying this is something that I struggle with. And that is an enormous sense of allowing that young person to feel valued and feel, not equal, but having some parity in an appropriate way that really will-- and I imagine that being very connecting for the relationship with that young person. And say, OK, and here's something I struggle with. And I know it's OK to take a break and so on. Interesting. I'm going to push the other way and ask this question, does attainment matter? Now, there's, obviously, further education options that it offers. But does it matter to attain in an educational setting? I think it does. I mean, it's not the be all and end all. And again, I think that it's one of the levers that can be pulled to enable a young person to really develop a strong sense of self and self-esteem. So I think there's something about really challenging yourself and aiming for something and understanding that that journey is not straightforward and linear. And so developing resilience in the face of not doing very well in a test or outcomes not being what you want, that's rich learning for an individual. And I think if we didn't care about attainment, then those learning opportunities and experiences wouldn't be there or wouldn't be as powerful. So it's hard. It's definitely trying to find that balance, but I think that's one of the reasons-- for me anyway, that's one of the reasons why teachers exist, to help students navigate that very fine line. Yeah. I mean, what you're talking about is the process of learning. So if I do x amount, then something will happen. All things being equal. If I persist with something, maybe I rethink it in a different way. Maybe I use my network, which is a really powerful life lesson. Maybe I go to the teachers around or I go to the peer discussion. If I use my network, things are easier. If I establish what the problem is, I can resolve it. These things are actually very important life lessons. As you say, exams are a gateway for some people. It's not the be all and end all, but that process of learning can generalise to other life skills. I think that's a really important point. But it's a very difficult balance and message to give to a young person. If they're not particularly somebody who's going to go down the academic route, how do you deliver that? So I mean, that makes me think about a student. Let's imagine a student who, perhaps, has done really, in these gateway exams a mark is a mark. You pass. You get an A grade or a C grade or below the whatever. These things do exist. It's the real world. If a student who had seen themselves as a good student in inverted commas, let's say they did really poorly on a particular exam. We know that teenagers experience emotions, particularly in the moment with a depth that they never have before or ever will again. It's part of the brain's learning system. And we also know that they tend to adapt a role, and they may cling to that role for a long period of time where they may let it go. So if a student fails, let's say it was a mock exam or a gateway exam and it changed their role and said, that's it. I'm done with academics. I'm done with politics. How can you bring them back in, or how would you address that? I think it goes back to what's happened in the run up to that exam. So again, it goes back to from day one, what's the kind of environment that I'm creating? What's the relationship that I'm creating with the students. How am I trying to support them to know that whilst the exams are really important, they're worth doesn't come from that exam result. So that's the kind of background work that I'm always trying to do. And then I've many times have had students who haven't done well in a mock exam or something. And that's been really crushing when they've worked really hard and then, suddenly, they haven't had the outcome that they have wanted. And again, it's about finding an appropriate time and space to talk to them. So immediately, when they're given the result, that's probably not the time to try to talk to them about things. So it's outside of that, arranging a time to meet with them and then talking to them about it. And again, really trying to support them with understanding that it is a journey. It's such a cliche, but it's true. That, actually, progress is not linear There are peaks and troughs on the journey towards an exam. So for me to just say I still absolutely have confidence in you. I absolutely do. This is what we're going to do, so being a little bit solution oriented. All right. OK. Let's work on this together. Here's what we can do for next time. And at the same time saying, you know that this doesn't mean that you're not a valuable person. You know that this cannot be something that absolutely crushes your self-esteem and sense of person and value. But having that kind of conversation requires all of that background, work that I was saying at the start. Yeah. So you have to earn that relationship in order to have that level of conversation. And that's really interesting, Takako, because that's the literature is coming towards, as I touched on at the very beginning, the idea that the student-teacher relationship is the precursor to lots of other interesting things happening in terms of the learning environment. But it has to start, otherwise, the other parts cannot happen. And it rings true in terms of how the adolescent brain would connect to somebody where they feel that there is a connection, that there is a degree of appropriate parity, where their views are listened to. And setting that context out allows you to help them on that journey, as you say, when the exam result comes back is not what they wanted. And life is like that, but you've got somebody alongside in your conversation to say, this is OK. Here's how we're going to move forward. And your description of how you would manage that is very-- and I would call that in the therapy world, containing. You're saying, OK, this has happened. So we're going to look at that. I still know that you are a good student, and here's what we're going to do. Here's our plan. I'm right here. Doesn't change how I think about you. It tells me that we are going to work together to do something differently. And that's an enormously powerful experience for a young person. As I said, their brains are porous. They're just looking and learning about every aspect of the world. And that's a wonderful life lesson for them to learn, when things are tough, there's somebody alongside, and there is a way forward. It's essentially, unpacking that. We've talked a lot about the wonder of your relationship building. Can we talk a little bit about how peers relate to one another? Because we know that teenagers connect with one another in a way that is incredibly important. And it's smart because what they're doing is they're learning the language, if you like, of their future community. And they have to learn what peers think and how you get to be in, a particular group so that you're not excluded. It's quite a fundamental thing. So it makes sense to us when we take that position. But we also know that peer-to-peer learning is one of the most effective ways for teenagers to access the curriculum. So is this a technique you've ever used? What are the pros and cons of using it? Yeah. I mean, I think, again, for me, it goes back to that environment that I create. So in the classroom, what I'm wanting is for every student to feel like their views are heard, respected. They're learning to listen to each other, especially if they've got different points of view. Thinking about how they express themselves so that they are understood by others so that they're showing respect. So when we create that kind of environment, what that means is, it's a place where we're all learning together, and that includes myself. And I suppose, for me, because I'm teaching politics, there's stuff that's happening now that, obviously, I didn't study. There was no-- yeah So I'm also learning and responding to things. And so what I try to create is an environment where we're all in it together. And yes, of course, I've got a degree of expert knowledge, but actually, I'm very open about wanting to learn from the students, here their points of view. Their perspectives, make me reflect and think about things differently. So I try to create that kind of space and environment. And then what that means is, they become much more able and feel free to be able to share their thoughts and views. And I find that they often then take that outside of the classroom and that they want to learn together. And actually, they love the fact that different people have different points of view. So I think that learning from each other and learning to respect and hear others is really important. Now, in terms of the kind of cons, I guess what can happen in a school, is that often, students have very similar views, and that might be because of whatever background it is that they're from. They've grown up together, so they might have very similar values and ethos and that kind of thing. So it can, from a politics perspective, become a little bit of an echo chamber. And they're not, actually, getting that kind of diversity of views. But I think that's a small part of it. I think that the benefits definitely outweigh that learning. And it's really interesting, and maybe, in some ways you're very lucky, or unlucky that politics is your specialism, because it's such an interesting area and particularly has so much contemporary relevance. So the idea that the teenagers are engaging with it was very, I would suggest-- and this is my bias, but I would suggest it's very important that young people are engaging with political systems and understanding it. But the idea that we stop, we listen, we acknowledge that, perhaps, you have a different viewpoint from me, and that's OK. I mean, again, these are user relationship-building skills. It's essentially what we're having in the context of a politics classroom. And we know that the capacity to exist and develop a relationship, even when there are disagreements is one of the best predictors for well-being in life. It really is. And so it's wonderful that it happens to be something that I can really see has huge relevance for these young people's life long well-being. Is that right? Yeah. And I'm going to ask you an impossible question here, Takako. So we know that idea-- and you might have heard me talk about it at the beginning-- the idea that if we can create a critical mass of peers with a particular value, it's likely that young people will change their value to be consistent. There is a peer relationship there. So what can educationalists do in teaching practise to create a peer culture that's aspiring and curious and supported? What can we do? Yeah, I think it is really hard. I mean, we have control and ownership of our classrooms. So I think it's about what are we creating in that space when students walk through the door? How can we enable them to have high expectations of themselves, each other? That desire to learn. That resilience of when things go wrong, we pick ourselves up. We learn from those mistakes. We celebrate the success of our peers. We support our friends, when they might not be doing well. I think it's creating that in the classroom and for students to see the value of that, and then they take that away, for me, it's the ripple effect. And it goes back to my thing of wanting to transform the world when I was 18 years old. And I thought the way I was going to do that was by going into politics. And actually, what I think is it's about each individual, if they believe in the brilliance of themselves and other people, they have a ripple effect with all of the people they interact with. And so it might feel like a slow process, but for me, it's like what happens in my classroom, and then what are those young people doing when they step outside of the classroom. How can I support them to make sure that everything that I'm trying to teach them, they're taking that away with them into their life outside of the politics classroom? Yeah. I mean, it's a really important and meaningful point that you're making. And the idea that you're modelling that behaviour, the idea that it's an implicit sharing of value in the classroom that will percolate elsewhere. What about the culture at home? We know that parental views or family views about education will predict a young person's attainment. Can you think of any instances where you've developed strategies to support parents? And this is something that I know that lots of teaching professionals will be really interested to hear about, because it's where your reach is a little bit further than the classroom, but it still has an important impact. Yeah, absolutely. So I try to cultivate a really strong relationship with the parents. And it's very much we're on this journey together. So we're working together to support your child. And that means that we want to have open lines of communication. I want them to be able to share with me their frustrations, their worries, their hopes, their fears. And so, often, I will meet with parents without their child and to try to understand what's going on. And then also, it's important to bring the child in and say, look, we're your team. This is it. We're your team supporting you for the next two years, for me, when I teach them A level. We're going to be working together. And just so you know, we're going to be openly communicating. So I'm going to talk to your parents about what's going on. They're going to talk to me. We're going to talk to you. So it's understanding that yeah, we're working together. And I think for a lot of parents, what I find is, because they are wanting their child to do really well, sometimes that can lead to conflict at home. That you're not doing enough homework, or whatever it might be. And so what I try to do with parents and with the child is talk to them about, OK, how can we make sure that when you go home that's a place of calm, relaxation? And how can we, as a school, help to take away that stress and conflict? And so there have been a number of occasions with students and parents, actually, where I've said, OK, that nagging about doing homework and have you revised enough, let me take that on. So I'll do that. I'll make sure that I'm on their back. And if there are any problems, I'm going to let the parent know. But otherwise, that's my role with the student. And so parents, what you're doing is you're creating a lovely space at home. They've got a desk that they can work at. They're being well fed and watered, and it's all of that kind of thing, so that they don't have to worry about constantly being in conflict around schoolwork. And we do that through negotiation. We talk about that. And I will ask, would this be helpful if I took on that role? And I've got to be honest, I've never had a parent who said, please don't do that. They're always incredibly grateful to not have to worry about that, to know I'm on that. I'm monitoring that. You don't need to worry. You just stock up the fridge, and make sure they've got snacks. And so creating that place where young people say this is-- and maybe it's where I don't do work. I know some young people do take work out of home. And I think, actually, it's quite interesting, or at least out of their bedroom. Because I do think there's a signal there that when I am in bed or I'm just relaxing, this is not about the work. Or I'm not staring at my politics textbook, as I'm trying to go to sleep. No. Absolutely. And I think that's very interesting. And we know that that actually works really well in lots of ways. The idea that you've got this framework here and you've got a young person to say, look, I want to do well in my exam. And you and the parents are saying, well, what are we going to do here to help you get there. And I always say it's a little bit like being a spare pair of frontal lobes. Your frontal lobes are associated with, my goal-directed behaviour and getting things going. But in the moment, I'm fed up. I'm tired. I don't want to do it. I need a spare pair of frontal lobes to say, you want this long-term goal, and I will do that for you. And I will do that with your permission, but here's where I'm going to say we're going to start it, we're going to get there, and so on. So I love the idea of the network. It's a little bit like there's a very famous study by Ann Masten. It's sort of classic study. And she talks about ordinary magic, the network of people around a young person that help them get to where they want to be or protect them if there has been an adverse event. So great resilience, essentially. And you're talking about exactly that, parents and teachers working as a partnership in order to get that young person through what can be a really stressful time. Yeah, and to get there, to get that young person's buy-in as well, nothing is done to them. It's always done with them. And so yeah. And I think that's often been the most powerful in my experience, where we're all together agreeing. These are the things that we've decided are going to really help you. I'm going to help to hold you accountable to that. And then we take-- And the young person's buy-in is key. I think that's absolutely is the icing on the cake, because that allows the young person to feel consulted to. It's not happening to them. It's with their permission. My network is helping me in the moment. Before we turn and talk about our final question, I want to ask you my favourite question, which is, what's your favourite mistake? What did it teach you, and why? Yeah, so I'm sure I've got lots of those. But my favourite one, I remember having one student who-- yeah, this is a number of years ago now. And he would come to my lesson, and he would have almost nothing with him. So he sometimes wouldn't even have paper or a pen. He would come, and he would sit. And he would engage. He would occasionally answer questions and that kind of thing. But to me, this was very different to what I was used to. So I'm used to students coming. They've got their laptops or their exercise book or whatever. They're diligently taking notes from the board, writing down everything that I say. And that's what I was used to. And so to see this student behave in that way, I was really frustrated. I was reading it as being very disrespectful. You don't think it's important enough to write down anything in my lesson. And I used to really just be like, come on, you've got to write this down, write this down, that kind of thing. And then, again, I kind of really reflected on why am I so wanting this student to write something down? What is it? What's the aim? Is it just that I want to see something on a piece of paper? Obviously not. What I want to see is that I want them to have bank of resources and notes, which means that they're going to do well later on. So I had a conversation with the student just to say, look, this is why I'm a bit worried and why I'm getting a bit frustrated about you not writing things down. And they were able to explain to me what their learning process is, that, actually, they are absorbing things. They want to just hear, listen. And that's how they learn. And so we agreed together. So I said, OK, look, I've got to be honest, in my couple of decades of teaching, I've never come across this. However, I want to give you the benefit of the doubt. Why don't you do your method? Let's see how you do. Let's see how you perform in tests. Because I knew that they wanted to do really well. So I was like, let's see how you do. If it works for you, that is totally fine. But I don't want to leave it for two years and then we get to it and then don't do very well. So is that OK? Can we just see how you do in the next few tests, and then we'll take it from there? And he did brilliantly. And later on, occasionally, he would write something down, and I'd be extremely excited. I was like, that must be a really good bit of information. A drop of gold there. But again, it was just understanding him, and again, for me to understand, why am I insisting on something? Is there a good reason for me to insist upon it? And of course, sometimes there will be. But in this particular instance, there wasn't. And so we found a way to work together. And I haven't had students who've done that since, and nobody else in their class did that. But it worked for that student. And what I'm noticing is that the space to reflect. Now, I think it's interesting because I think teachers don't get much time to reflect. It really is very intense. You're either in the classroom with the young people or marking and so on. Whereas, in a therapeutic world, we have a supervision session, and we think, oh, why did that touch something? What was the dynamic there? What was going on? So I think what you're describing here-- and this is my experience with working with educationalists-- is, with the opportunity to have just a moment of reflection, things change. But it's not built in to the teacher's day-to-day professional experience, which I don't think is fair. So if you're dealing with young people and particularly, increasingly with more complex emotional behavioural issues, there has to be a space to think why and the opportunity to have curiosity about that, which you demonstrate so brilliantly. OK, Takako, let's turn and ask our final now what question. So here, I want a single practical tip that any educationalist, or in fact, any adult working with young person could embed in their practise tomorrow. So yeah, I was really racking my brains on this one. So I think, for me, it is if you really believe in that young person in front of you, if you really believe that they can achieve the very best, that you have the utmost respect for them, how does that impact your behaviour and the way that you talk to them and the way that you respond in a particular situation? So that's the question that I'm always asking myself. And just to give you an up-to-date example, this morning I was marking some tests, and there were a number of students who really didn't do very well, and I was getting very angry and frustrated as I was marking. And I was ready to write some really harsh comments and thinking, I'm going to read them the riot act when I see them. And then I thought, OK, if I really believe in this young person and think that they're absolutely doing their best, how is that going to change, actually, what I write on their test paper and how I talk to them? And then I thought, OK, I've got to assume that they really tried their best and then got a mark that they're not going to be happy with. How can I support them in that? How can I tell them that it's OK, we're going to get through this together? And so that enabled me to write a very different comment to what my initial comment was going to be. So I think my one practical thing is, what does it look like if you really believe in the person in front of you? What do I say or do that's different because I believe in you? And that is a piece of gold dust. I would write that down. If it's the only thing I was going to write down, I would write that one down. Takako, it just remains for me to thank you for teaching us some of the secrets of your success. Thank you so much. My absolute pleasure. Thank you. [MUSIC PLAYING]